Messages

61

BOBs / Re: Tip of the Spear BOB Hunt (MAJOR UPDATE)

« on: February 01, 2012, 03:17:39 »

So basically, Niles confirmed what I theorized earlier in this thread in this post where I called it the "1.4 Condition"... except that he's claiming that it should still work (and the fourth condition is a completely different spawn.)

A quick refresher:

At the top of the script I noticed the random value assigned to the spawn variable was set to a value ranging between 1-4. The script was then evaluating this variable but there was were only three values it was checking for: 1-3. This confused me at first but then someone (thanks Dom!) pointed out that the last function checks for a value greater than or equal to 3. So basically the likelihood that Bob will spawn in the final area is 50% and the other two are 25% each.

So value 4 correlates to the missing BOB spawn.  Of the three remaining values (1-3), two must correlate to the "BOB squad" at the end of the level (5-B-01) and one to the BOB spawn at mission start (5-S-01).  This would give 5-B-01 the 50% spawn probability.

As mentioned in that crazy post of mine, perhaps they think they are generating a random number from 1-4 and instead they are getting a number from 0-3.  This would cause their evaluation code to work for values 1-3 (as we see it does) but the code in their "final function" which conditions on the value being greater than 3 would always evaluate to FALSE; thus, the fourth spawn would never occur.

Any way we can politely ask them to double-check their random number generation in this script?
I emailed Urk.  We'll see.

62

BOBs / Re: Tip of the Spear BOB Hunt

« on: December 18, 2011, 13:36:36 »

I posted on the HBO forum about this particular problem, and Urk saw it and mentioned it to Niles Sankey, the lead mission designer for Reach.  Mr. Sankey said he'd look into the code, and see what's up!!

Thanks for reporting the news, LF- and well done!

63

BOBs / Re: The Official Lord Friendship's BOB Video Guide Thread

« on: December 04, 2011, 02:50:15 »

@LF:

Check out the ToTS clips in my file share, especially "FC:BOB 5-B-1.3 Standoff".  This shows you where the script trigger is.  For both BOB spawns over on the left, you can always get in a fully charged plasma bolt- at least on Heroic.  You will have plenty of time to pick off the grunts, skirmishers, etc so that you can walk up and take your pick of a plasma pistol - so long as you do not venture too far forward toward the Spire.

Furthermore, I found that I was able to get pretty reliable checkpoints as I approached the BOBs on the left side- so that reverting to checkpoints always gave me another chance if I messed up.  I know you're attempting to do this without dying, but I wasn't sure what your policy was on reverting.

64

BOBs / Re: The Official Lord Friendship's BOB Video Guide Thread

« on: November 28, 2011, 16:00:46 »

No worries, LF.  We all have lives, and most of us (especially me!) have had long bouts of absence to deal with the real world.  No expectations here.

IRL Priorities have kept me from getting my New Alexandria BOB video up, although I have been sneaking in some game play here and there.

Your video guides are great- and I hope you do come back to them!  Thanks for letting us know what's going on!

65

Report In! / Re: Dan Miller on Glyphs, Plinths, QTA and BOBs

« on: November 21, 2011, 15:44:30 »

I have a theory that the BOBs and the mystery helmet are two totally unrelated things, but I'll save that speculation for another time.  What's interesting is that Candland never says "we've never seen that helmet" but rather that they don't know what 343 has in store for it.  I think it's plausible that part of Bungie and Microsoft's agreement included turning over some secrets in Reach, allowing 343 to develop the mystery and get the fanbase to transfer from Bungie to 343 seamlessly.

With big business, the path to the truth usually follows the money.  I also agree that your theory about fanbase transference is plausible. 

Likewise, I agree with the notion that Bungie's Reach BOBs and 343's weird helmet are separate entities.

66

Report In! / Re: Dan Miller on Glyphs, Plinths, QTA and BOBs

« on: November 19, 2011, 04:14:02 »

I don’t think you can attribute anything in Halo Legends as related to our stuff. Both things were built by separate teams.

So.... does this mean that BOBs have nothing to do with the GRD helmet?

Correct.  Ever since Dave "Evil Otto" Candland at Bungie said so on 7/11/2011: CLICK HERE (LF's BOB GUIDE PART 1 @ 4:23)

One of his original responses from that day: http://m.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=62986992&postRepeater1-p=2#62994136

He put the response on his FAQ.

One final post.
Just to clear things up and stop with all the PMs here is the quote directly from My FAQ.

Certain Affinity, under the direction of 343 industries, created the Defiant map pack. When Microsoft released screenshots of the Defiant pack, people noticed a previously un-seen helmet on one of the Spartans.

We at Bungie do not know what 343 has in store with this helmet, and the internet is full of theories. Like you, we will just have to wait and see what, if any, plans they have for it.

After the Bungie day Steaktacular, a rumor was started that this helmet made an appearance during the live stream in our armory. This rumor has picked up a lot of hype and momentum, with a lot of people professing to have seen it. They couldn't have. It was never there.

There is also some talk that I am feigning ignorance to cover something up. I am not. If I was in the know, I would simply say, "I can't talk about it."

But Dan Miller's response doubly confirms it, in my opinion.

67

Intel / Re: Out of Lone Wolf

« on: November 19, 2011, 03:30:31 »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GOoU6cJYOs&feature=feedu

I recommend watching all of these
http://www.youtube.com/physicsremastered

The first one was pretty impressive- and those guys sure have a lot of fun playing together!

The second one: not so much.

If you are 16 right now, you were 6 when Halo: CE came out and very probably don't recall where this billboard is on PoA. 

How about showing how to get to the billboard?
Or how about showing the difference between the original billboard and the new one?
Had he looked at the original, he might have noticed that the new cat poster was a play on the old one.  That wasn't even touched upon, and is required to get the joke.

I could go on and on.  Suffice it to say that I hope our content- when we produce it- is more thorough and explanatory than that one.  Sorry if that was too negative, but I think the bar needs to be set a little higher.  Oh, and crediting the artists whose music you stol... used... is always nice.

In any event, thanks for the links, Nader!

68

HCEA: C01: Pillar of Autumn / Lore & In-Game References

« on: November 18, 2011, 05:57:35 »

• Marathon logo removed from Keyes' uniform
• Bulletin board has new set of postings, including "Cat Found" poster in answer to the original Cat Missing poster (which was a reference to the film Alien)
• Cryo-tube control room (overlooking starting area) shows status of "Master Chief UNSC Petty Officer John-117" and "UNSC Petty Officer Linda-058" on the wall.

69

Report In! / Re: Dan Miller on Glyphs, Plinths, QTA and BOBs

« on: November 18, 2011, 04:24:26 »

You might want to make sure Mr. Miller is fine with his emails getting dissected on a public website as well.  I'm guessing he expects that, but it's nice to get permission to make his private correspondence public.

70

Report In! / Re: Dan Miller on Glyphs, Plinths, QTA and BOBs

« on: November 17, 2011, 13:08:58 »

Sorry CG, I just think we should come up with something related to Mission Design/scripting where Miller very probably had a say in.
Something that's been stumping and impeding us from continuing <something>.

For me, that would be the first two questions.  These are all related to completing our comprehensive analysis of the BOBs.  But I am admittedly more interested in that topic than most.

I look forward to reading what questions the rest of the group has for Dan.

71

Report In! / Re: Dan Miller on Glyphs, Plinths, QTA and BOBs

« on: November 17, 2011, 02:48:56 »

In regard to what I might ask Dan Miller:

• What drove the design decision to include invisible "Covenant Pilot" objects inside of the Banshees? 
• Do you know if the "Golden Tree City" challenge is written to check for the death of the Banshee object, The Covenant Pilot object, or both?
• Do you recall who designed "Tip of the Spear"?  How conducive might that person be to similar emails from us about their level?
• We assume the "Golden Tree City" challenge's namesake is your nickname of "Tree City".  What's up with the "Golden" part?  Is it just because your level design quality is as good as gold?

I'd thank him for the final mission "Halo" in Halo 3:  it was awesome!

I'd also apologize for assuming anything developed by 343 had any direct developmental connection with anything developed by Bungie.

72

Report In! / Re: Dan Miller on Glyphs, Plinths, QTA and BOBs

« on: November 16, 2011, 23:28:25 »

@Pulse:  Congratulations on presenting Dan with your questions intelligently, and on getting such an interesting reply!!!  It's truly a milestone. 

Staten had some interesting things to say on the Bungie podcast in the run-up to ODST.  He was very candid about how the mystery was intentionally seeded, and that you could actually figure things out if you "did your own recon".  (This was back when the game was still called "Recon").

Scat has a bit of an "in" with Staten.  I would recommend forwarding ODST questions through him.

My burning question will probably be about the J-Banners.  Once I narrow down who might have been the responsible party for those textures, perhaps I'll fire them off a similar email.

All-in-all, well done. 

73

BOBs / Re: BOB 6-S-01 (The Beach BOB)

« on: November 16, 2011, 19:46:07 »

@Lord Friendship:  I've been meaning to report that I got the Beach BOB to spawn without destroying or moving the wraith.  This may or may not be interesting to you.  A film clip should be in my share.  Before I get all crazy about it, is this even news to you?  I believe your original article mentioned that you had to kill or move the wraith in order for the BOB to spawn.

74

BOBs / Re: Enyclopedia BOBtannica

« on: November 15, 2011, 02:32:44 »

The only thing I would like to stress is that there isn't necessarily a BOB on exodus or NA.

Sure there is.  It boils down to the difference between a concept and its technical implementaion.  We've had this discussion before:

The bob banshee is a set banshee that patrols through an area.
There is no bob inside it.

Let's consider the difference between what is conceptually true versus what is technically true.  Conceptually, beneath the helmets of ODSTs are human faces.  Halo fiction and in-game cinematics depict ODSTs as humans who wear helmets.  But in-game, if you somehow managed to cause the game engine to glitch and remove the visor texture of an ODST helmet, you may find that there is no texture for a face behind it.  Technically, then, it would be truth that ODSTs have no faces.  So there you are with a seeming contradiction:  ODSTs have faces but in the game they do not have faces!  Once we qualify these truth with the adjectives "conceptual" and "technical", we can settle the dispute:  conceptually, ODSTs have faces but technically they don't.

Conceptually, the "Banshee BOB" on New Alexandria contains a BOB (per Bungie's daily challenge description), but technically it does not.

Next issue...

You get the GTC challenge by killing an "Anonymous Banshee Pilot".

Until we kill the Anonymous Banshee Pilot (ABP) without destroying its Banshee, we do not know whether it is the ABP, the Banshee, or both which are involved in the requirements of the "Golden Opportunity", "If It Bleeds...", and "Golden Tree City" daily challenges.

Conceptually, it doesn't matter.  Technically, I am very curious to know which they used in the challenge logic. 

Next issue...

A Golden Elite Ranger is classified as an Elite Light Vehicle. So why don't you get that kill when you destroy a bobshee and complete the challenge?

Because Dan Miller implemented the Banshee BOB objects in his campaign missions differently than the other designers implemented their Elite Ranger BOB objects?  Dan Miller is the mission designer responsible for the "New Alexandria" level, and here's an oblique mention of that by Bungie:

I was doing some forum lurking myself and noticed that there were some complaints that the Pelican isn’t on the list of player pilotable vehicles. Turns out, it is. By way of Dan Miller’s mad genius and some deviously hidden devices, the Pelican can become player controlled.

But don't take it from me.  You helped bring the enlightenment to us from Tom Gioconda (aka "Achronos") yourself over in this post.  The famous quote:

The answer to that question is somewhat techncial... and somewhat silly.

Every enemy and ally has a classification, and the Gold Elite was bucketed into a normally "impossible" classification for an elite biped so stats on him are tracked differently from a normal elite of his class (spec-ops, iirc). Bungie.net code correctly handles this special case and shows you what it was, but the game PGCR does not. It is somewhat similar to how the game doesn't break out Firefight VS stats the same way bungie.net does, even though they're reading essentially the same stats.

Last issue...

We have two perfectly even sources saying different things. Which are we gonna follow?

We follow the paths of logic:

1a. The "Golden Opportunity" challenge reads "Find and kill the Gold Ranger-class Elite in any Campaign mission on Heroic or harder." [proof]
1b. We have this video confirmation of a Banshee on Exodus granting the Golden Opportunity Challenge.
1c. We have this video confirmation of a second Banshee on Exodus granting the Golden Opportunity Challenge.
1d. We have this video confirmation of a third Banshee on Exodus granting the Golden Opportunity Challenge.

Based on the above facts, it is only logical to assume that the three Banshees in question are conceptually meant to be BOBs, although their technical implementation (as AVBs and/or Banshees) was different.

The same logic can be applied to the "Golden Tree City" challenge and the boosting banshees on "New Alexandria".

I hope this has been clear and helpful!

By the way, the fact that Dan Miller's nickname is "Tree City" (a mispronunciation of "360") is probably enough to attribute the "Golden Tree City" daily challenge namesake to him, since that challenge must be completed on his "New Alexandria" mission.

75

BOBs / Re: Enyclopedia BOBtannica

« on: November 14, 2011, 21:35:33 »

As an interesting side note, if this level has four unique BOB spawns, and there's a fifth BOB on TotS, there are 49 total unique BOBs in Reach.

I have been meaning to discuss this issue for some time, and LF just provided the perfect opportunity.

I'll call this my "BOB Credo":

ColdGlider's BOB Credo
I believe there are only 10 BOBs in Halo: Reach.

I believe that these 10 BOBs are distributed evenly across the playable campaign missions, one per mission ("Winter Contingency" through "Lone Wolf".)

I believe that each of the 10 BOBs may appear only once during a single, uninterrupted playthough of its corresponding mission and that it will appear at one of a collection of predefined locations within that mission, referred to as "spawn points". 

Bang.  Three simple statements of basic BOB belief.  At it's core is the notion that every BOB spawn point in a given mission is simply a predefined location where one specific, unique BOB "character" in the fictional game world can randomly appear. 

The devil, as always, is in the details.

I believe that spawn points may be collected into a subset, or spawn point "cluster" which typically represents minor variations of a BOB's spawning location within the same general area of play.  I refer to each spawn point within a cluster as a "spawn point variant", or "variant" for short.  The reappearance of a BOB within its mission when the mission is restarted from the in-game menu is greatly affected by whether or not a spawn point cluster was selected by the game engine versus a non-clustered spawn point.

There are also conceptual details to grapple with.

I believe not only that both spawn points in "ONI: Sword Base" are places for the same conceptual BOB to appear, but also that the same BOB can appear in eight different sets of armor.  I do not feel that these 16 different appearance options for this BOB constitute 16 unique BOB "characters" in the game.  Indeed, I believe that there is one BOB on ONI who can appear in one of eight forms in one of two places.  (And I sometimes think he was required to be that crafty in order to infiltrate the security measures of the Office of Naval Intelligence!)

If you're reading this far, then you have no doubt noticed that Lord Friendship and I have devised very different identification systems for the BOBs and their various spawn points.  I'm totally fine with multiple catalogs of BOBS existing because each has its own strengths and weaknesses.  Ideally, I think these should be standardized in order for the community to be more cohesive-  but mappings between multiple schemes are easy enough to concoct. 

What is much more important to me is that we are clear- as a community- in how we refer to the different behavioral and visual characteristics of BOBs: in short, our nomenclature.  It's a confusing subject, and it gets all the more confused by people referring to very different things with the identical term of "BOB".

Hence my little credo.

I'd would very much like for the interested parties to weigh in on this matter.  Can we arrive at a consenus on how to describe these guys and lead the rest of the community in the process?