SGP
Halo ODST => Theorizers => Topic started by: ColdGlider on October 15, 2009, 12:03:19
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(http://www.gruntspajamas.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=985&g2_serialNumber=2)
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
-T.S. Eliot, "The Hollow Men"
I struggled trying to leave my post at just that. I failed.
This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIG_lP3_9FU) from September 26 was linked to the SGP previously (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=163.msg684#msg684) (thanks, Enigma) and establishes an ODST-"Hollow Men" connection via backwards-recorded references during the "Windward" Firefight Level. Eliot's poem has a storied past in relation to the Halo series. A similar backwards audio reference to the same poem exists in Halo 3 and is linked to the search for an "Assassin Skull" which was identified as existing in the game through inspection of its code. If you have nothing else to do for a week, you could catch up with this 9-month old 130-page thread (http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=29072035&postRepeater1-p=1) on B.net.
The presence of another hidden audio reference to "The Hollow Men" in ODST is a remarkable discovery. YouTube poster ReadyUpLive provided an informative video that serves as a useful document of the easter egg, but what the video lacks is an analysis more penetrating than "Epic Creepiness." Despite the abject failure of Halo 3 investigators to turn up any results analyzing T.S. Eliot's poem in the context of the Assassin Skull, I'm going to delve into a little bit with respect to ODST.
Popular criticisms of "The Hollow Men" link it to Dante's Inferno. 'Nuff said, there! (For details regarding the connection, this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollow_Men) might be a good start.) I'll leave it up to Danves (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5) and the other Librarians (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?board=32.0) to provide further Inferno enlightenment!
Eliot's poem is divided into five sections. According to the aforelinked Wiki article:
Some critics read the poem as told from five perspectives, each representing a phase of the passing of a soul into one of death's kingdoms
In ODST, we witness the story from five different perspectives (Rookie, Buck, Romeo, Dutch, Mickey.)
The Windward message doesn't quote the poem verbatim. It merely refers to it. According to the video, the message is:
Eyes From Death's Dream Kingdom
Appear as sunlight on a broken column.
There- in Death's other kingdom-
Walking alone,
Trembling lips form prayers to broken stone
We can map each of these lines to the original poem to extract the source material for the recording:
Lines 1 and 2 of the recording map to the first stanza of Section II:
Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death's dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
Lines 3-5 of the recording map to the second stanza of Section III:
Is it like this
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.
A significant alteration is the substitution of "walking" for "waking" in the fourth line of the recording. From the ODST story's standpoint, the Rookie both wakes and walks alone (until Date Hive, anyhow.)
My theory is that locations in New Mombasa have been built in homage to "The Hollow Men." Specifically, I believe the stanza I opened this post with refers directly to Squidhenge, where:
- "This is the dead land" is represented by the courtyard Squidhenge resides in (a "dead" area where combat doesn't involuntarily occur.)
- "This is cactus land" is represented by the stone slab filled with needles, making it appear like a cactus.
- "Here the stone images / Are raised" is represented by the structure of Squidhenge
- "Here they receive / The supplication of a dead man's hand" is represented by the fallen Elites
- "Under the twinkle of a fading star" is represented either by the Superintendent (fading due to corruption and imminent shutdown) whose sad glyph is above the fallen Elites, or by the literally twinkling Engineers hovering above
If I am correct then other parts of the poem might suggest ODST Easter Egg clues. Is the "broken column" the Space Tether? Are the ubiquitous "eyes" those of the SI? If I am not mistaken, in Mombasa Streets tall moving grass is only present in courtyard areas. How might that be important given the following:
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer--
Or what about these lines:
The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
It just so happens that there are no cameras in the Squidhenge courtyard. Nor in D08's Engineer Courtyard. D03's Courtyard does have them.
Finally,
Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death's twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.
Could this foretell the reappearance of eyes in the Circular Glyph that is beaming in District 08's courtyard? Are Engineers perpetual stars and/or multifoliate roses? Do in-game dialog quotes such as "Don't shoot anything pink!" and "...perfume over here..." along with the visual appearance of the Engineers support an Engineer-rose link? If so, the eyes reappearing "as the perpetual star / multifoliate rose" could be symbolized by the SI's "death" being overcome by Vergil the Engineer's assimilation of him.
Could this be the conceptual easter egg key we have been missing? Or are we just hopeful empty men?
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Wow...This is deep.
4 player prayer at the squidehenge anyone?
Iron skull off 3 player sacrifice?
1 player at each light ( 3 lights ) 1 killed in the middle?
Wait for the covy. ship to fly overhead rocket it to death and have it crash at the squidehenge?
pretty sure I could go on but.....
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wow I craped my pants when i read the article(just kidding). but seriosly this comes back to my theory of the 4 player co-op.
three by the lights.
one sacrificed in the middle.
Epic Creepiness....
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This sacrifice-thingie starts to really creep me off... :o
And yeah, this is reeeeal deep. So glad I am here... :D
But what can we do now -> What can I do for you?(Other than sacrificing myself to the Forerunner Gods)(And I'm pretty sure that I can't help you in the in-game sacrificing, since I'm several time-zones out of US)
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This sacrifice-thingie starts to really creep me off... :o
And yeah, this is reeeeal deep. So glad I am here... :D
But what can we do now -> What can I do for you?(Other than sacrificing myself to the Forerunner Gods)(And I'm pretty sure that I can't help you in the in-game sacrificing, since I'm several time-zones out of US)
CHECK IN AT: Knights of SGP
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Just a heads up to everyone in this that I'll be online this evening from about 10/11PM EST to 1AM EST. We should try this! (my gamertag is the same as my name on thie board)
"Well ColdGlider, you've done a lot for us but your time has come. Gentlemen, set the funeral pyre. Flame grenades in 3...2...1..."
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LOL. Signed in now...
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The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms
Has anyone found a half-jaw elite in that district?
Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.
There are six upright stones. Twelve hours on a clock. If the space between the stones count as a number on a clock, and each stone a number, then maybe something needs to be done while standing between two stones.
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Very nice, beets... two players and 12 possible combinations. Sounds like an easy enough test plan to execute.
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Just a quick note on the original item itself. I think everyone is right that there must be some connection between the poem and an easter egg in the game and the guide may be "Hollow Men". Especially considering Inferno's role in both the main line and Sadie's Story. Bungie did not quote the poem contiguously however, they did not quote from all over the poem but from the 1st stanzas only. Therefore I think what they quoted item itself should be analyzed. Here is what I believe they have a strong possibility of meaning.
Eyes From Death's Dream Kingdom
Appear as sunlight on a broken column.
The SI's cameras that watch you in the city. There are several references to Inferno in this game already and there is some agreement that Data Hive is a representation of the lowest circle of Hell:
"The Ninth Circle, Fourth Ring, called Judecca, where Traitors against their Benefactors are fully covered by ice." Canto XXXIV Inferno
The SI cameras are small blue lights that follow you from columns, walls, etc. The broken column may refer to the SI being damaged/rampant.
There- in Death's other kingdom-
Walking alone,
The Rookie's experience of walking alone in the city at night, dead after the battle and slipspace rupture. May also refer to the way that this is unlocked(solo).
Trembling lips form prayers to broken stone
The track we're already on in a lot of ways. Taking some kind of action that could be considered a prayer or sacrifice at Squidhenge.
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Trembling lips form prayers to broken stone
I agree that the sacrifice has some idea, but what about "broken stone"? Does this mean we have to do something to the pillars perhaps, eg. Shoot them?
The rest of Apollos analyze makes great sence, just the "broken"-part bugs me...
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FYI
sacrifice: Brute, Hunter, 1 and both Engineers and Myself. Nothing happened. ( all at different times.)
prayer: used the rubber band trick to stay in crouch mode for over an hour in the center (solo) nothing happened.
Difficulty: Easy
skulls: none
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You could have just changed the crouch settings, you know? :D
Anyway, good you tested that out, but I'd agree that the sacrifice requires more ODSTs.
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You could have just changed the crouch settings, you know? :D
Laughed when I saw this, lol. Toggle crouch, but then again, you were probably excited/sleep deprived wern't you Enigma?
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That's how I roll. :P
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Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.
Is there a way to get Buck or Dare near the Squidhenge? Theirs are the only "Lips that would kiss" I can think of in-game.
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broken stone.
Is it possible we're focusing too much on one henge? Maybe I should've done a refresher before posting this, but it seems like there's another one, where the stones arn't all there.
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Broken stone ....Isn't there a stonehendge with a broken stone in the form of being smaller than the others. Try to pray crouch to this one not in the middle but directly in front with your head facing the ground.
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yeah... i really dont think you can affect the game by moving into a position in crouching much less that theres a stonhenge thats broken.
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Reading about the poem, and the idea to "pray" at Squidhenge gave me an idea, along with looking at the sad Monoglyph. Maybe we should have a three (or four) player coop team go to Squidhenge and arrange them in the following way:
One team member kneels, facing the pillar directly across from the sad Mono, while two more do the same at the pillars on either side of the Mono. Either do that with the three person squad, or stick the fourth in the middle of the formation (thereby recreating the triangular glyphs seen so often in the city, with the sad Mono at the head of it all. Not much more likely than anything else that's been tried, but anything is worth a shot.
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Welcome to the SGP, Phantasm!
;)
I like this idea! Set a date, form a team, try it out, and report the results!!!
Depending on the outcome of my recent Task Force Draft (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=690.msg5776#msg5776), time may be a bit limited for some of us... but you don't know until you ask!
P.S. You will be happy to know that we have (just today) reinstated public registration. Thanks for being patient with us while you waited to be brought in the old way!
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Thanks for lettin me in. Like my siggy says, I had to jump through some hoops, but I needed the exercise ;D
I don't know if I can make it on Live yet, but I've got everything but a gold account (disregarding the fact that the router needs to be plugged in, but that's not gonna take much time at all). I'll see about organizing a team, though.
I saw the notice about that. I think you might want to add an SBTN to the mods' arsenal (Spam-Bot Tactical Nuke ;D) if the problem was so bad that you had to disable registration.
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I don't know if I can make it on Live yet, but I've got everything but a gold account (disregarding the fact that the router needs to be plugged in, but that's not gonna take much time at all).
You want to buy a gold membership soon... I here the price is going up to 60 dollars.
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I don't know if I can make it on Live yet, but I've got everything but a gold account (disregarding the fact that the router needs to be plugged in, but that's not gonna take much time at all).
You want to buy a gold membership soon... I here the price is going up to 60 dollars.
Alright, thanks for telling me. I'll keep that in mind and try to hurry it up then.