SGP
Halo Reach => BOBs => Topic started by: Lord Friendship on November 02, 2011, 16:45:46
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The following is from Niles Sankey, lead mission designer for Reach, via Urk:
Dear Lord Friendship,
I took a little time to look into the case of the missing Gold Ranger Elite. It�s been a while since I�ve looked at these scripts. At first I thought there was (as you suggest in your post) a bug that prevented Bob from spawning 25% of the time. At the top of the script I noticed the random value assigned to the spawn variable was set to a value ranging between 1-4. The script was then evaluating this variable but there was were only three values it was checking for: 1-3. This confused me at first but then someone (thanks Dom!) pointed out that the last function checks for a value greater than or equal to 3. So basically the likelihood that Bob will spawn in the final area is 50% and the other two are 25% each. Also, it should be noted that the three Bobs that spawn in your lower screenshot are all controlled by the same spawning function but this particular Bob squad (even a single AI is referred to as a squad) has three starting locations that the engine randomly chooses from.
In any case, it appears that the script is working as designed and I don�t see any reason why Bob wouldn�t be spawning in.
All of that being said, it would appear that you have not identified one of the locations of Bob in this mission. According to the scripts and the object placements in the level editor, there is one more place that he should be spawning. On the other hand, with the amount of time you�ve put into the game, I can�t believe you wouldn�t have seen him unless there is a bug preventing it. Ahhh, the mysteries of life.
Thanks for posting your question. I hope this reply was at least somewhat interesting. :)
Niles
This means that there is one undiscovered BOB on this level!!
I've made two videos to aid in the search. Both are on Legendary:
Tip of the Spear: Where's BOB? (Short) (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25451294)
In this game, no known BOB spawns, suggesting our missing BOB is somewhere to be found. I skip most of the enemies to advance through the level in about 12 minutes on Legendary with no deaths. A good video if you want to peruse a certain area quickly.
Tip of the Spear: Where's BOB? (Long) (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25452251)
Once again, here no known BOB spawns, suggesting our missing BOB is somewhere to be found. However, this video clocks in at around 50 minutes, and I methodically take down each and every enemy, including one flighty Phantom. Legendary again, with 5 deaths, all equally embarrassing. If I get the time, I'll make another one with no deaths.
If you get time, please watch one of these videos, post your thoughts, etc. in the search. Also feel free to let me know any random theories you might have, and I'll try out whichever ones I can. Thanks!
Also, whoever finds the mystery BOB will get credit in the video guide; it's not much, but at least you'll get a little recognition!
Just to clarify, here are the known BOB spawn points (images from Halo Creation (http://www.halocreation.org/t5303-ee-liste-des-bobs-de-halo-reach-elite-ranger-or-dore)):
One spawn point overlooking the first Tyrant Anti-Air gun:
Click for video (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=24949533)
Click for image (http://i.minus.com/jqn7RBBrBZKyx.jpg)
Three spawn points near the Spire:
Click here for Spawn Point 1 Video (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25410385)
Click here for Spawn Point 2 Video (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25437936)
Click here for Spawn Point 3 Video (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25295954)
Click for picture of all three spawn points (http://i.minus.com/j0tbv6xP5cHYH.jpg)
Here is a list of some of my theories to get the ball rolling. If you have an idea, feel free to post it! I'll add to the list as people post theories, and mark them as confirmed, false, etc.
Theory 1
Using level skips somehow prevents the BOB from spawning.
Status: Busted
In the above video, the level is played normally, and all enemies that can spawn into the game do so. Yet, no BOB spawns.
Theory 2
The leftmost Banshee that flies overhead at the beginning of the level will, occasionally, not fire. This could possibly indicate a Banshee BOB.
Status: Busted
Using the grenade launcher, it's possible to EMP this Banshee, dropping him off the level. You get credit for a kill this way; if this was a Banshee BOB, this should by all accounts grant the Golden Opportunity challenge. However, on 11/2 I EMP'd this Banshee in a game where it did not fire; no challenge was awarded. Note that the left-most Banshee is not firing.
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2076/reach24705281full.jpg)(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9360/reach24705271full.jpg)(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8369/reach24705282full.jpg)
Theory 3
It is possible to enter the Garage in the bottom of the BXR Mining Facility if the Rocket Warthog is brought in.
Status: Busted
Bringing the Warthog here does nothing. Same for the Spade.
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6637/reach24707021full.jpg)
Theory 4
There is a random chance that no BOB will spawn on this level.
Status: Non-Falsifiable!
Theory 5
One of the Banshees that sometimes approach the BXR Facility is a BOB.
Status: Busted
Using the Rocket Warthog, it's quite easy to blow up these three Banshees. None awarded the "Golden Opportunity" challenge. All three Banshees will fire on the player, usually with Banshee Bombs. This was done in a game where no BOB spawned, specifically the second game above, which can be viewed as a Saved Film.
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7126/reach24707006full.jpg)(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6540/reach24707000full.jpg)(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5899/reach24707007full.jpg)(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8872/reach24707008full.jpg)(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7904/reach24707011full.jpg)
Theory 6
One of the marines on this level is a BOB.
Status: Plausible
It's possible, but would be unique to this level. Be careful if you do this; killing too many Marines will turn Jorge on you, even if he doesn't get a chance at revenge until after he gets out of the Falcon. In the first of the two Saved Films above, I killed the "OTA" Marine, but did not get the Golden Opportunity challenge.
Theory 7
The Falcon that flies overhead at the beginning of the level is a BOB.
Status: ???
You can't EMP the lowest-flying falcon, which is driverless but not jackable. There are actually three Falcons here, but the other two fly very high. The pictures below were all taken on Easy.
If you can keep the Fuel Rod Shades from taking out the Falcon, you can melee the gunners yourself:
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3867/reach24707346full.jpg)
No driver! I didn't try to headshot the driver, who may be invisible.
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9226/reach24707347full.jpg)
Plasma Pistol has no EMP effect, so you can't flip it to eject the driver like the WC Falcon:
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/9162/reach24707350full.jpg)
The Falcon is very weak; a melee or two will destroy it.
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9068/reach24707360full.jpg)
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6177/reach24707361full.jpg)
You can get on it if it gets stuck, but once it's stuck it doesn't seem to ever get un-stuck.
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/782/reach24707364full.jpg)
Theory 8
Serious backtracking is required. For example, the BOB spawns on the bridge to the BXR Facility as you leave the facility from the other side.
Status: Plausible
This will take some time to check; basically people will need to watch the videos very closely, and focus on where the player has been rather on where they will go. It's possible to backtrack from the BXR exit all the way back to the broken road section. Climb objects and/or grenade jump up out of the hole, then jump across the gap to the BXR entrance. From there, you can just run or drive back. An invisible wall prevents further backtracking.
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2187/reach24707012full.jpg)(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7694/reach24707013full.jpg)(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/124/reach24707022fulli.jpg)
Theory 9
The Zealot is a BOB.
Status: Busted
In both of the videos above, I killed the Zealot. This did not register as a BOB kill or award the challenge.
Theory 10
A BOB spawns during the Falcon ride.
Theory 11
Some sort of button or trigger must be used to spawn in the missing BOB, if it is chosen.
Theory 12
The missing BOB only spawns on Legendary.
Theory 13
Getting the missing BOB to spawn requires saving the "doomed" Falcons at the first encounter, and each of the Tyrant guns.
Happy hunting!
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Theory 3
It is possible to enter the Garage in the bottom of the BXR Mining Facility if the Rocket Warthog is brought in.
I do believe that Monx tried to get into that only to find that there's nothing there, correct me if I'm wrong Monx, and I also doubt that a BOB would spawn in a place that you can't walk to or see from inside the playing fields.
Also, if the Golden Challenge is up, you should kill everything, including marines.
On that note, do you know if a marine spawned in the falcon that you enter near the end of the mission?
And what about the first falcon that flies over you in the beginning? We have to check everything.
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GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY IS ON NOW! So this is the perfect time to go hunting for this!
Theory 8?: The Zealot that you can race to to kill (and for which there is an achievement granted if you kill) is also a BOB.
I haven't reviewed the clips yet, so please spare me if this was already done during LF's game.
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GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY IS ON NOW! So this is the perfect time to go hunting for this!
Theory 8?: The Zealot that you can race to to kill (and for which there is an achievement granted if you kill) is also a BOB.
I haven't reviewed the clips yet, so please spare me if this was already done during LF's game.
Yeah, I got the Zealot in both of the above games, on Heroic, and no dice.
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Also, if the Golden Challenge is up, you should kill everything, including marines.
On that note, do you know if a marine spawned in the falcon that you enter near the end of the mission?
And what about the first falcon that flies over you in the beginning? We have to check everything.
In the first video I killed what I believe people are calling the "OTA" marine, the one with a darker uniform and a grenade launcher. I don't believe I killed any others. In the second, the OTA marine lived.
I didn't think to look in the Falcon, but I do believe one spawns in with Jorge.
Check above, I've added some stuff on that early Falcon from a game on Easy. If we could jack that Falcon, it would make speedrunning the level ridiculously easy!
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Footage of one of the Tip of the Spear Bravo BOB variants (assuming there's more than one) is available on my file share (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=tootankhamen&sg=0). It's in two parts because in a fit of pink bow-tied BOB lust, I decided to run directly into a FRG blast. :)
I believe this is a well-documented BOB but I did confirm that he grants the Golden Opportunity Challenge.
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@Scat, I don't remember any of that, lol.
But any chance a Bob might be somewhere on the Falcon ride to the Spire?
I'll check today, then try another level if it doesn't work.
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@Scat, I don't remember any of that, lol.
But any chance a Bob might be somewhere on the Falcon ride to the Spire?
I'll check today, then try another level if it doesn't work.
That's definitely a good idea! When I watched my videos, I looked around a lot during the Falcon ride. I didn't see anything, but it would be easy to miss. It also might have something to do with which side you choose; I believe I chose right side in both videos, but I'm not sure.
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Footage of one of the Tip of the Spear Bravo BOB variants (assuming there's more than one) is available on my file share (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=tootankhamen&sg=0). It's in two parts because in a fit of pink bow-tied BOB lust, I decided to run directly into a FRG blast. :)
I believe this is a well-documented BOB but I did confirm that he grants the Golden Opportunity Challenge.
Thanks for the confirmation and the clips!
I went and got this same BOB myself and recorded it to DVD-R, so we have video confirmation of the G.O. Challenge.
Now on to the missing one!
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Footage of one of the Tip of the Spear Bravo BOB variants (assuming there's more than one) is available on my file share (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/Default.aspx?player=tootankhamen&sg=0). It's in two parts because in a fit of pink bow-tied BOB lust, I decided to run directly into a FRG blast. :)
I believe this is a well-documented BOB but I did confirm that he grants the Golden Opportunity Challenge.
Thanks for the confirmation and the clips!
I went and got this same BOB myself and recorded it to DVD-R, so we have video confirmation of the G.O. Challenge.
Now on to the missing one!
But remember, that BOB has 3 different spawns in the final arena. Shouldn't we confirm all of them?
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But remember, that BOB has 3 different spawns in the final arena. Shouldn't we confirm all of them?
In my opinion, the Golden Opportunity challenge should be used to verify stuff that either is commonly confused for a BOB, or is not clearly a BOB. All of the BOBs discovered on Tip of the Spear thus far have clearly been Gold Ranger Elites. Maybe you guys should use Golden Opportunity to show, once and for all, that the Package Banshee is not a BOB, or that the Spec-Ops Elite on Winter Contingency is not a BOB. (so, pause the game, show the challenge is active, kill the non-BOB, then show it's still active)
Just my two cents.
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But remember, that BOB has 3 different spawns in the final arena. Shouldn't we confirm all of them?
In my opinion, the Golden Opportunity challenge should be used to verify stuff that either is commonly confused for a BOB, or is not clearly a BOB. All of the BOBs discovered on Tip of the Spear thus far have clearly been Gold Ranger Elites. Maybe you guys should use Golden Opportunity to show, once and for all, that the Package Banshee is not a BOB, or that the Spec-Ops Elite on Winter Contingency is not a BOB. (so, pause the game, show the challenge is active, kill the non-BOB, then show it's still active)
Just my two cents.
I feel that it's more of a confirmation, especially since you can sometimes kill a BOB and not get a medal.
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In my opinion, the Golden Opportunity challenge should be used to verify stuff that either is commonly confused for a BOB, or is not clearly a BOB. All of the BOBs discovered on Tip of the Spear thus far have clearly been Gold Ranger Elites. Maybe you guys should use Golden Opportunity to show, once and for all, that the Package Banshee is not a BOB, or that the Spec-Ops Elite on Winter Contingency is not a BOB.
This is a great idea, actually. This will allow us to point to a video when someone mistakenly posts false claims about non-BOBs.
I also agree with Scat that we should continue with our confirmation videos on existing BOBs, including their variant spawn points in a particular area. I confirmed two spawn points of the Spire BOB yesterday with GO- one on video, one- unfortunately- not.
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New BOB Video on our YouTube channel:
http://youtu.be/z4eZUYB6j5g
I cataloged all three spawning points of the Spire BOB yesterday, this is one of them (5-B-1.1) and contains the challenge notification for GO from 11/02.
I have some disturbing news. While continually restarting the missing after getting the Spire BOB spawn, I eventually got a restart with non BOB at the Spire. Initally this was exciting- I thought I found a new spawning variant and perhaps LF's missing BOB. After hours of searching (including jacking the Banshees, running up through the spire checkpoint and kill the Ultra with the sword, etc) I never found another BOB.
I think that there may be a "5-B-1.4" variant that- when chosen- doesn't actually spawn anything. Not good.
Otherwise, the Restart Mission function doesn't work as we thought.
There are new film clips in my share for these BOBs. This could be very bad for prospective Vidmaster Runners.
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I doubt that it would just not spawn. Just doesn't seem like Bungie would do that. My bet's on the fact that there is a fourth mini-spawn of the 5-1-1 BOB. We just can't find it. Possibly it's out of map, but it obviously isn't clear. I say we work extra hard looking in that area when no BOB spawns.
I'm pretty sure the Restart Mission does work as we thought. It will not alter a BOB spawn on solo if you restart the mission, but, as proved by LNoS, if can alter a mini-spawn.
In that last Spire segment, check on cliffs, out of map, everywhere. There really isn't any reason why it shouldn't be there.
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I'm going to get Pulse-like on this one and talk about science. Well, computer science anyhow.
Most every programming and even scripting language has the equivalent of the C and C++ SWITCH statement. Many of you here have used it in your own programming work. Essentially, it allows you to test the value of a certain variable and selectively execute code based on that value.
Consider the following:
switch (rnd) {
case 1:
SpawnBob(Location_1);
break;
case 2:
SpawnBob(Location_2);
break;
case 3:
SpawnBob(Location_3);
break;
}
In the code above, assume "rnd' is a variable containing a random number, expected to be in the range 1-3. The code would then randomly call the SpawnBOB function with one of three possible location values ("Location_1", "Location_2", or "Location_3").
Still with me? So assume the code above executes when the Spire area loads as part of the script that populates the enemies of the area and generally sets things in motion.
So long as the "rnd" variable evaluates to 1, 2, or 3 then all is well.
UNTIL...
You realize that the value of "rnd" sometimes becomes 0, because you're generating it randomly and you forgot that the default range of your random number function begins with 0. So "rnd" actually can be any number between 0 and 3. When the control variable of the SWITCH statement doesn't match a testing condition, NOTHING HAPPENS. In other words, if 0 is chosen as the random number (or 4, or 5, or any other number for which there isn't a "case" condition) then no spawn function gets called and no error is generated. It's an easy mistake to make, and since it wouldn't generate a compile or run-time error it could easily slip through. It could also easily be missed in testing, since a missing BOB might be assumed to have simply slipped away and despawned, as they often do. I suppose that comes down to how thoroughly the testers were looking at the BOB spawning behavior in that particular area.
I have been referring to the selection of a non-spawning BOB as the "1.4" condition, since that would be the next logical numbering of a fourth BOB spawning point for BOB 5-B-1.
I'm not totally giving up that we have somehow missed the BOB, but we are really running out of options here. I think we're approaching the point where one of the following must be true:
- There is a hidden switch (or switches) we haven't found which would do something cool (like Reach Racer), and would also spawn variant 1.4 if it had been randomly chosen.
- This is the first occurrence of a BOB spawn which only spawns on Legendary, either by Bungie design or scripting accident.
- The 1.4 variant spawns before the Falcon flight (at the very beginning of Rally Point Bravo.) It would be strange for a variant spawn point to be in a completely different loading zone from the rest, but hey- it's possible.
I suppose to be thorough, I should probably include that we just haven't found it in the Spire area yet, but be my guest:
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=24788284&player=ColdGlider (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=24788284&player=ColdGlider)
The saved film above chooses the non-spawning (or non-found) BOB at 6:44 when I enter the Spire area after the Falcon flight. Have a look around, and please prove me wrong!
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This is what I was afraid of. It's hard to get any official word out of Bungie, of course, but you can always try! I tweeted at them, we'll see if they respond. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll ask really, really nicely on HBO; sometimes Urk or someone will drop by with a helpful word.
In the interest of thoroughness, I'll try my hand at a no-death (or at least few-death) run of ToTS on Legendary, killing everything in sight, and in a game where no BOB appears, when I can. I know I could do it with skips -- I almost beat it on Mythic a few times -- but I'll play the honest way.
Thanks for all the good work guys! I'm actually one BOB away from this part of the guide, so it'll be good if this is all sorted out soon.
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Interesting, CG.
I've been trying to post a comment but I just can't: when I try to say something against your post I always find a way how my arguments fail, and when I try to say something that supports your post the same happens.
We've reached the "I can say whatever I want and it just might be right - if they did it the way I think they did" stage. There's not much to say: you might be right, you might be wrong - we have no guarantees of anything.
We don't even know if they used random numbers...
Seems a bit hacky and over-the-top, but maybe we can find something by replicating the same exact tasks. For instance:
1) Be offline;
2) Turn on Xbox, select the Campaign mission Tip of the Spear and let it load;
3) Turn off the Xbox with the game disc inside;
4) Turn on the Xbox;
5) Start the game with the minimum number of moves necessary (I think you only need to press A to start the game if you're offline);
6) Let the opening cinematics play and wait until you're prompted to press START;
7) Press START;
8) Press A to start the choosing of a new Campaign mission;
9) Let the mission load (I'm assuming the Xbox remembers it's TotS);
10) Press A to start the Campaign mission;
11) Finish the level without killing anything (excluding the obligatory enemies, if any);
12) Repeat, twice, from 2) to 11) and then skip to 13);
13) Watch the recordings of the gameplay and check if the spawning of the BOBs occurred in the same location.
If the BOBs spawned in the same location I shall eat dirt for 3 consecutive days.
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We should try it, but I doubt they would spawn in the same place. The Xbox 360 most likely uses a timer to imitate random. The timer is always changing. When called upon for a random variable, it will go a large number of integers into the timer. Like 17.47869327595001858205828348597039406604. This decimal will be so far into the number that it's impossible for a human to manipulate the number in any way.
But if you could consecutively jam the A button perfectly so that there's no dead time in between presses, and the map loads the exact same amount of time as it did before (which I highly doubt it would), you could, in theory, have a BOB spawn in the same place every time.
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There's a random Phantom that spawns in the Spire's lifts, then, without dropping anything off, goes through the EMP barrier and exits the map.
I have no idea why they would put this here. (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=24873263&player=Scatcycle)
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That's supposed to exemplify that the Spire is a teleporter. There's some dialogue about it as well. Still, it would be interesting if it were possible to take it down. Unfortunately, you don't have much firepower when it spawns, and it moves quickly.
I'm working on the TotS portion of my video guide now; I'm going to try and get a no-death, kill-everything run of this level on Legendary during the next Golden Opportunity challenge. Until then, I'll just be collecting the known BOBs. I haven't noticed anything new yet, except for the fact that you can take out the Phantom that drops the first Wraith you encounter (by the portable bridge). I thought it might be a BOB, but one spawned later in the level.
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So, something strange happened, and I thought I'd see if any of you could see some significance in this; it might be interesting, it might not.
As you may know, there is a Falcon at the second Tyrant anti-air gun. If you destroy the gun PDQ, the Falcon will survive (normally, it's destroyed by the Tyrant).
Not only did I save the Falcon, I managed to EMP it, flip it, and eject the pilot. Unfortunately, Falcon piloting seems to be disabled for this level, and as such, no "Press X to pilot Falcon" prompt showed when I got near the Falcon. I couldn't even flip it back over.
Pics:
(http://i.imgur.com/pugc0l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QUPLQl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ezImGl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Emye0l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/UE1eTl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TO2anl.jpg)
Later, when I was in the other Falcon with Jorge, I fired a grenade round at the downed Falcon, and got a -150 point betrayal penalty. I figured it was for the invisible pilot, but I'm not sure. If anyone can think of a use for this, let me know. Hadn't seen it before, thought it might be interesting.
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Same exact thing happened to me on one of my runs. Foolishly, I did not wait till Jorge's Falcon came down when I tried to pilot the falcon. Did you? It could be that when Jorge's Falcon lands, the variable that shuts out boarding air vehicles could be changed, letting you get into Jorge's Falcon.
With this variable changed, you may be able to pilot the falcon.
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By the time I had dropped the Falcon, Jorge's vehicle was already there and waiting. You can only ride Jorge's Falcon, making me think that there are global variables that can be set regarding vehicles. So, Exodus has Pilot.Banshee = 0; at Tip of the Spear has Pilot.Falcon = 0. It's a shame, flying a Falcon through the canyon would be a lot of fun.
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So, pretty exciting news! I posted on the HBO forum about this particular problem, and Urk saw it and mentioned it to Niles Sankey, the lead mission designer for Reach. Mr. Sankey said he'd look into the code, and see what's up!!
It might be a while, but it's be nice to know that someone's looking into this, instead of us just banging our head against the wall in frustration. I'll update here when I hear back!
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So, pretty exciting news! I posted on the HBO forum about this particular problem, and Urk saw it and mentioned it to Niles Sankey, the lead mission designer for Reach. Mr. Sankey said he'd look into the code, and see what's up!!
It might be a while, but it's be nice to know that someone's looking into this, instead of us just banging our head against the wall in frustration. I'll update here when I hear back!
:D ;D :D ;D
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I posted on the HBO forum about this particular problem, and Urk saw it and mentioned it to Niles Sankey, the lead mission designer for Reach. Mr. Sankey said he'd look into the code, and see what's up!!
Thanks for reporting the news, LF- and well done!
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Please read the OP! Niles Sankey replied, and it looks like we've got our work cut out for us!
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I don't understand why he didn't test the BOB spawn. For all we know, we may be on a wild goose chase. He confirmed that this other BOB exists, but he didn't confirm that it spawns. He said it should spawn, unless the code is bugged.
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Well, he does have stuff going on, I heard Bungie is working on a new game or something. :)
Even if it's glitched, I'm hoping that we can work around it, e.g. the LNoS Beach BOB. Either that, or it's REALLY well hidden. I'm thinking up high? There are a lot of unreachable grassy ledges. We'll see, I think a few people at HBO might look into this as well.
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FINALLY, Christmas Break has arrived, and with it, more time to hunt Bobs! ;D
I will try to search for this Bob and also work on getting footage of the Fuel Rod Bob on TotS.
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I'm sorry, I don't have time to put the appropriate links into the OP, but if you're looking for Fuel Rod BOB footage, check out the post on HBO:
http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1117043
Above the images, there are links to the rendered clips I've made for each BOB on this level. Not sure if that's what you're looking for, but wanted to save you time if it was.
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I was referring to this post of yours. (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=1730.msg11732#msg11732)
You still need help capturing kill footage of those Bobs, right?
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Actually, no! I'll update the OP (along with the BOB Video Guide thread) with links soon, but I have full-run, no-death Legendary runs of this level for each known BOB! Feel free to take a look at the videos (I'll have rendered clips) or wait until the Video Guide comes out, but I managed to figure out a strategy for each one.
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Sweet! That's good to hear :)
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So at this point, I believe the BOB is an invisible elite just like the data pad elite on Winter Contingency. We've checked everywhere. I've check random rooms protected by glass. He just isn't anywhere. Why? Most likely because we can't seem him. He's invisible. Now, Monx is taking pictures of the enemies spawning on both films (bob and non bob), and I'll use a difference filter to detect changes in the picture, revealing the Bob.
Now if this doesn't work, there is also a chance that you require something else for the Bob to spawn. All waypoint commendations, I don't know. Just something. So think, people. The Bob clearly isn't findable by anyone. At least not what we think the bob is, a gold elite. Start looking for shimmers. Start thinking different. We won't find him with our standard thinking. Put on your lab coat. Let's find this Bob.
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I'm thinking what Scat's thinking. But after a thorough scan of the entire campaign mission, I had no luck finding that which you cannot see. That's the one thing that sucks about looking for an invisible enemy.
Another idea that I'm thinking is what Niles said at the end of his message. The Bob may be bugged, and something similar to the drop pod Bobs on the beach of LNoS, spawn and then almost instantly despawn. I'm still going to look for him, though.
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So basically, Niles confirmed what I theorized earlier in this thread in this post (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=1732.msg11603#msg11603) where I called it the "1.4 Condition"... except that he's claiming that it should still work (and the fourth condition is a completely different spawn.)
A quick refresher:
At the top of the script I noticed the random value assigned to the spawn variable was set to a value ranging between 1-4. The script was then evaluating this variable but there was were only three values it was checking for: 1-3. This confused me at first but then someone (thanks Dom!) pointed out that the last function checks for a value greater than or equal to 3. So basically the likelihood that Bob will spawn in the final area is 50% and the other two are 25% each.
So value 4 correlates to the missing BOB spawn. Of the three remaining values (1-3), two must correlate to the "BOB squad" at the end of the level (5-B-01) and one to the BOB spawn at mission start (5-S-01). This would give 5-B-01 the 50% spawn probability.
As mentioned in that crazy post of mine, perhaps they think they are generating a random number from 1-4 and instead they are getting a number from 0-3. This would cause their evaluation code to work for values 1-3 (as we see it does) but the code in their "final function" which conditions on the value being greater than 3 would always evaluate to FALSE; thus, the fourth spawn would never occur.
Any way we can politely ask them to double-check their random number generation in this script?
I emailed Urk. We'll see.
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Well. Seems Urk doesn't want to respond. But I think I may have found a really good way to see if the Bob does spawn.
I may try and mod. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyQb3bVbOfA&feature=plcp&context=C31f4fb9UDOEgsToPDskLAAPX8Nwz7LL4FBkheWtod)
In the video, he shows that you can edit the size of enemies. I sent him a PM on B.net and he said you can change the size of anything, Bobs included. So I might mess around with it until I find the Bob and make it really huge, large enough to easily notice him even if he is invisible.
If I don't find him, either he doesn't spawn correctly or I could try something else. And it would most likely be the former.
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The BOB likely spawns under terrain.
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The BOB likely spawns under terrain.
Which with this, I can make him large enough to be seen above ground. Then, I could also move his spawn so he does spawn above ground.
If it's possible to figure out my own coordinates, I could manage to put the Bob directly in front of me.
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Well, the TotS BOB search is over, and not in the way I wanted it to be. If you haven't yet, please check out part 5 of the BOB Video Guide, where I pretty much call it as a glitch... but maybe someone will see it, be motivated to figure it out, and crack the case. Here's hoping!
BOB Video Guide Part 5 - Tip of the Spear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUXQcAAZJy8)
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Well, one way of trying to find a "bright side" to this issue is to consider that the community has a whole wealth of knowledge about this issue that they would not have had otherwise if we didn't persist in looking, and in questioning.
It is definitely a downer that the spawn appears to be bugged in some way. It also means we can "move on" from this particular search, and simply report the facts (as LF has already done via another quality installment to his BOB video series.)
I'm currently of the mind that the BOBs ended up being relegated to daily challenge fodder, whether or not there were grander aspirations for them originally.
Maybe someday we'll get to hear a little more about Bungie's decision to include them, and what was truly intended.
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Maybe someday we'll get to hear a little more about Bungie's decision to include them, and what was truly intended.
A great way to find that out would be to ask the Bungie Mail Sack. It pops up on Mondays in a thread in the Community Forum and gets answered every Friday. I've been asking my own questions, but if anyone else had a question they could also ask.
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Ah, closure at last: https://youtu.be/230EDs0Y7sk . Spawn triggers at BXR. Issue is... spawn location is within an area that hasn't been loaded yet. If it's any consolation, each time you failed to find ToTS's Bob, you were still indirectly effecting his demise.
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Aah, new findings (or closures) at SGP! What a time to be alive!
Good to see you alive too Scat, or that you were half a year ago! ;D