SGP
Halo Reach => Intel => Topic started by: Imppa on August 17, 2010, 11:11:23
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Go go go! (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=A_Spartan_Will_Rise)
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Thats Halsey right! I do hope she becomes the new Miranda by telling us tips and what to do. I hated not having Cortana in my head.
Off to find shotcodes!
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Because most of the ViDoc is in-game, I don't expect to find any shotcodes (exluding from the last part where Halsey is seen).
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Yea, that last scene had a lot of info on it. The computer she is using had stuff on the bottom left (Its backward and hard to read). Can anyone get a snap shot and post it?
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Thats Halsey right! I do hope she becomes the new Miranda by telling us tips and what to do. I hated not having Cortana in my head.
Off to find shotcodes!
Yeah, I'm fairly certain that's the AI talking about which spartan she's using. At first, I thought the references of fate were pertaining to Reach, but at the end, I realized she was just talking about her own virtual existance, lol.
I don't think 'she'll become the new Miranda', but the AI will definately be based off of Halsey, thus the pun 'great minds think alike'.
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Yea, that last scene had a lot of info on it. The computer she is using had stuff on the bottom left (Its backward and hard to read). Can anyone get a snap shot and post it?
Here it is!
It seems to have some info about the AI...(I think...or something...:P)
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HIGHCOM / SPECWAR / GROUP_3
AI - AIRTC / DIRCT FEED / SAT / REG
RICH / WRY / UTKZT / EPSZ / BOCTH/ SWD/SL D2
55081/6/RN0816
DSQ-FD 44 // 709
(((BARCODE?)))
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It can't be Halsey unless it's a legendary ending because Halsey didn't find out about the S-III's untill Ghost's of Onyx (She gained the info in First Strike)
So if this make's sense Halsey must say this between GOO and any time onward or it's not Halsey.
Unless if this is like that ODST VIDOC Desperate Measures Halsey never says this excluding the last line.
"So, you've made your choice? Yes, well... great minds do think alike."
Another thing behind the lady there's the screen that goes away. On it it says Kat and Carter is MIA with another Spartans face.
Pic (http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/iTzFRAGY/WOW.png)
Urban Holland also makes an appearance.
Urbans first mention (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=24530)
Urban pic in VIDOC (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100817115416/halo/images/f/f1/UrbanHolland.jpg)
That cover's anything interesting in the VIDOC.
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It can't be after GOO because she's trapped in the center of the Shieldworld at the end right? I am pretty sure this ViDoc is Halsey talking to Auntie Dot about which Spartan she(Auntie Dot) is choosing to save her from the Fortress on Reach.
She refers to Noble 6 as having a "Very Deadly" rating, which only one other Spartan has (presumably the Chief). I think that this scene is Halsey seeking a transporter for Auntie Dot and Noble Team happens to be the closest group of Spartans. Halsey then goes through all the members of Noble Team and settles on 6, when Auntie Dot chooses Noble 6 to be her carrier.
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I am pretty sure this ViDoc is Halsey talking to Auntie Dot....I think that this scene is Halsey seeking a transporter for Auntie Dot and Noble Team happens to be the closest group of Spartans. Halsey then goes through all the members of Noble Team and settles on 6, when Auntie Dot chooses Noble 6 to be her carrier.
I think Apollo is correct on this, especially if the Halopedia article (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Auntie_Dot) about Auntie Dot is correct. About 47 seconds in, upon Halsey's command to "Show me Noble team," we see a graphic of an AI working in response. This image is very similar to Auntie Dot's symbol (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/File:Auntie_Dot.jpg). And here CG and I were all hyped that it might be our beloved Cortana!
As for Halsey's presence, I can think of two explanations. First, we don't really know much about the shield world that is accessed at the end of Ghosts of Onyx and we know nothing about what happens to the characters once they enter it. Like John and Cortana's, the fate of Halsey, Kelly, Fred, Mendez etc. is unknown. Since we know nothing about the workings or real (in terms of human time and space) location of the shield world, I suppose it is possible that Halsey is operating from there or has returned from there, but this would put the events of Reach, the game, well after the events we commonly associate with Reach, the planet, since the shield world doesn't open until November 2552. This does not seem to juxtapose with the script of the vidoc, which leaves one with the impression she's in some kind of command and control center on Reach during or in the immediate aftermath of the destruction of Reach.
The more likely explanation is that the events depicted in the vidoc - and one assumes the game as well - are taking place during the period after the Fall of Reach (around August 30) and before Halsey's rescue from Reach by John, Cortana, and company sometime between September 7 and September 12. Does this mean John could conceivably make an appearance in Reach? I bring you good tidings: it is possible. For according to the Halo canon, at least as best as CG and I can figure after a three hour phone call on Saturday which involved lots of annoying mumbly speed-reading on my part, John is, if you like, in two places at once. (This is a poor and I think incorrect way to put it but bear with me.)
The physics escape me - and it is all about physics, as time travel gimickry always is. But the gist is that after the events depicted in Halo 1, John travels back in time via the amazing powers of the crystal discovered by Halsey and team on Reach. How, you ask, is this possible? In version 1 of events, John is in cryo in slipspace aboard the Pillar of Autumn on his way from Reach to Installation 04, or to the events of Halo 1 if you like, from August 30 to September 19. He fights the Flood and Covenant for approximately three days. On September 23, Cortana, John, et al enter slipspace aboard the stolen Ascendant Justice for their journey back to Reach. During the journey, some unusual things happen and we are made aware that Cortana has become unable to predict the length of their trip/their destination time with her usual pinpoint accuracy.
Meanwhile, on Reach, Halsey and several Spartan-II's (NOT III's mind you) have fled underground to escape the Covenant, who are in pursuit of a holy relic. Beneath Menachite Mountain and the UNSC complex located there, Halsey et al discover this relic/crystal on September 7. The crystal is revealed to bend time, space, and gravity. (For more on the crystal, read Enigma's largely plagiarized post here (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=810.0) :P.) After John's team's rescue of Halsey and the Spartan-II's with her, it is revealed that it is September 12. On September 13, John and company indeed make the "first strike" (I never understood the title of this book until now) when they attack the Unyielding Hierophant, the base where Truth is massing Covenant to attack Earth. Now what does this all mean? I am not the one to explain it for sure but these are the things I grappled with in trying to understand this. Does this mean John has to go back and re-do the destruction of Halo 1? How do the events of timeline 2 re-converge, so to speak, with the events of timeline 1? OR, if you prefer, how does John's physical body (John #2, space traveler) catch up with John #1, Halo destroyer? This isn't really explained as First Strike ends on the 13th. I imagine a physicist would tell me it's a moot point and there's only ever one version of John, but just at the moment I start to grasp some hazy outline of this, my mind blows up. :o I theorize (perhaps?) that it has something to do with slipspace and the fact that John #1 is in slipspace, which is outside of time and space (read: some sort of eternal now) when John #2 is rescuing Halsey. In this sense, the Johns are one and the same. Or something like this....I just made that last part up but I think it sounds cool.
And thank you, CG, for bearing with me and providing all your ideas regarding this thorny issue, which has perplexed me all summer.
P.S. It can't be Halsey unless it's a legendary ending because Halsey didn't find out about the S-III's untill Ghost's of Onyx (She gained the info in First Strike)
I too am puzzled by Halsey's appearance, CIA, though it does seem to be her. The presence of Spartan-III's on Reach is a complete mystery to me. The Spartan-III is the brainchild of Col. Ackerson, Halsey's mortal enemy. Halsey is not privy to the development of this program, nor would she approve of the methods - Spartan-III's are basically a cheaper, more expendable version of Spartan-II's. Further, Ackerson advocates for the abandonment of Reach. Why would he do this if he knew his troops were on the ground? Is this a renegade group of Spartan-III's or (perhaps more likely) an early experiment that Ackerson wishes to be destroyed? Are there two batches of Spartan-III's, unbeknownst to us, one engineered by Halsey, one by Ackerson? Is Noble Six the Spartan-III flash-clone version of the old MC himself? For these reasons, though, I think it is unlikely the the main game events will revolve around Halsey and Master Chief. The Spartan-II's with Halsey underground are named, and they are not Noble Team.
All that said, I will be vastly disappointed if there isn't something that brings us full circle, especially after all the run-up taglines such as "From the Beginning You Know the End" and, in this case, "A Spartan Will Rise." @:
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Ark, you're way of thinking and your wits seem to never cease to amaze me. Heavy text, miss.(Or is it lady? No, infact, just forget what you just read inside these brackets.) :)
While I wont comment on the case of Halsey, I must say that I think I understand this time travel case you have told us about. Chief IS in two places at the same time.
Think it like this: There is a theory that there is always the same amount of matter in the unvierse. If something would dissappear, the same amount of matter would reappear [at some point](Don't quote me).
Therefore, if Chief would go to slipspace, he would reappear, and the amount of matter would be equal again, right?
BUT: When the crystal Halsey and Spartan-IIs discover send out a radiation spike, it somehow changes the slipspace: because of this, Chief is now going back in time, causing him to come out of the slipspace 16 days before the jump began, at Reach. He then saves Halsey, does awesome stuff and goes to Earth with the others to warn about Covenant.
6 days later, The Battle of Aplha Halo begins, and the Chief is there, fighting, at the same time while he's on Earth preparing for Battle (and some medals). After the Battle is finished and Alpha Halo destroyed, Chief The Destroyer jumps to Reach, but because of a radiation spike from the Crystal, it becomes a timejump.
And after that, only 1 Chief is there. The one at Earth, and the amount of matter is equal again.
Now, you probably didn't get a thing. If you did, I seem to still be able to write somehow nicely even after midight.
Shall I draw I picture? Maybe later. ;)
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Speaking of people who never cease to amaze me, you and Pulse, Mr. Imppa, with your incredible language skills definitely qualify! I am totally humbled by you guys. Speaking of you two, what is the European release date for Reach?
Thanks for your explanation. I think it helps some, though I'm still not quite there. I do feel myself getting closer. :D I'll reread it later when I'm fresher.
I do have a question though:
He then saves Halsey, does awesome stuff and goes to Earth with the others to warn about Covenant.
6 days later, The Battle of Aplha Halo begins, and the Chief is there, fighting, at the same time while he's on Earth preparing for Battle (and some medals). After the Battle is finished and Alpha Halo destroyed, Chief The Destroyer jumps to Reach, but because of a radiation spike from the Crystal, it becomes a timejump.
And after that, only 1 Chief is there. The one at Earth, and the amount of matter is equal again.
I thought the first appearance of Chief on or near Earth - and after September 23 - was the beginning of Halo 2, October 20, 2552, when we find him at a medal ceremony on Cairo Station. Is this what you're talking about? The when may be irrelevant as far as your theory goes, but I'm trying to make sure I'm on the same page with you.
Wait a second, I think I'm with you. So you're basically saying the September 23 MC (call him John 1) more or less "disappears" when he enters slipspace to go back to Reach because his time-traveled version (call him John 2) is already somewhere in the universe, all matter accounted for and having performed all his various acts of derring-do? My mind explodes!
Is this right, Imppa?
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I too am puzzled by Halsey's appearance, CIA, though it does seem to be her. The presence of Spartan-III's on Reach is a complete mystery to me. The Spartan-III is the brainchild of Col. Ackerson, Halsey's mortal enemy. Halsey is not privy to the development of this program, nor would she approve of the methods - Spartan-III's are basically a cheaper, more expendable version of Spartan-II's. Further, Ackerson advocates for the abandonment of Reach. Why would he do this if he knew his troops were on the ground? Is this a renegade group of Spartan-III's or (perhaps more likely) an early experiment that Ackerson wishes to be destroyed? Are there two batches of Spartan-III's, unbeknownst to us, one engineered by Halsey, one by Ackerson? Is Noble Six the Spartan-III flash-clone version of the old MC himself? For these reasons, though, I think it is unlikely the the main game events will revolve around Halsey and Master Chief. The Spartan-II's with Halsey underground are named, and they are not Noble Team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5coBvOGVY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5coBvOGVY) This might support you.
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Speaking of people who never cease to amaze me, you and Pulse, Mr. Imppa, with your incredible English language skills definitely qualify! I am totally humbled by you guys. Speaking of which, what is the European release date for Reach?
Thanks, the opinion of a native speaker is always the best in this case! ;)
I think the release date is the same. We're not THAT far away from US. :P
I do have a question though:
He then saves Halsey, does awesome stuff and goes to Earth with the others to warn about Covenant.
6 days later, The Battle of Aplha Halo begins, and the Chief is there, fighting, at the same time while he's on Earth preparing for Battle (and some medals). After the Battle is finished and Alpha Halo destroyed, Chief The Destroyer jumps to Reach, but because of a radiation spike from the Crystal, it becomes a timejump.
And after that, only 1 Chief is there. The one at Earth, and the amount of matter is equal again.
I thought the first appearance of Chief on or near Earth - and after September 23 - was the beginning of Halo 2, October 20, 2552, when we find him at a medal ceremony on Cairo Station. Is this what you're talking about? The when may be irrelevant as far as your theory goes, but I'm trying to make sure I'm on the same page with you.
Well, in Halo: FIRST STRIKE we didn't see the moment when the Gettysburg arrives to Earth, but it is mentioned that they are heading there. I can't say surely WHEN did they reach Earth (Nobody can), but halopedia states that FIRST STRIKE reveals that Earth's Orbital Defence Platforms came online 14th September.We can assume they were at Earth at that time already.
Wait a second, I think I'm with you. So you're basically saying the September 23 MC (call him John 1) more or less "disappears" when he enters slipspace to go back to Reach because his time-traveled version (call him John 2) is already somewhere in the universe, all matter accounted for and having performed all his various acts of derring-do? My mind explodes!
Is this right, Imppa?
I think you got it. :D
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Thanks, the opinion of a native speaker is always the best in this case! ;)
Yeah, hope I didn't sound condescending about this (i.e., let the snotty American bestow praise!). I really meant it as a compliment. I sorta speak a second language (Spanish) but I would hardly attempt to explain physics and time travel using it. :-X
I think you got it. :D
Yea! High five!
And yes (ahem), I know where Europe is, Mr. Smartie Pants. The EU release date has historically been a day or two later (or much later in the case of Halo 1), ODST's worldwide release being an exception. As I've told you before, don't make me come over there with my ODST energy sword!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5coBvOGVY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5coBvOGVY) This might support you.
Interesting....I didn't know the Insurrectionists were active on Reach. And certainly not as late as 2552. Hmmmmm....Where are they going with all this?
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Thanks, the opinion of a native speaker is always the best in this case! ;)
Yeah, hope I didn't sound condescending about this (i.e., let the snotty American bestow praise!). I really meant it as a compliment. I sorta speak a second language (Spanish) but I would hardly attempt to explain physics and time travel using it. :-X
Don't worry, I did take that as a compliment...I just mean that I hear that from time to time from my friends and parents or such...so I actually meant it here. :D
I think you got it. :D
Yea! High five!
And yes (ahem), I know where Europe is, Mr. Smartie Pants. The EU release date has historically been a day or two later (or much later in the case of Halo 1), ODST's worldwide release being an exception. As I've told you before, don't make me come over there with my ODST energy sword!
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Yea sure. ;O
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I'm sticking to my guns that this trailer represents a conversation between Halsey and Cortana.
I think Auntie Dot was concocted to be your in-game guide- as the Halopedia Article mentions- and nothing more. I imagine that Auntie Dot coordinates data between Noble Team either as a distributed network AI or from a central location with direct feeds from each team member's suit. I would go so far to guess that Auntie Dot was with Noble Team before they began their operation on Reach and that Auntie Dot's existence might even be unknown to Halsey.
While I'm just guessing away:
I think Halsey- trapped on Reach- found a way to link up with Cortana (perhaps while she was in orbit on the Ascendant Justice) to have the conversation depicted in the trailer. She's looking for candidates for an operation ("Yes- Noble Team will do. Yet, only one of them can carry our last hope. Only one will hold our fate in their hands"), but specifics of the operation itself and what the "chosen one" will be actually be holding remain mysteries. Perhaps this will unfold in a similar manner to Dare having her own agenda in ODST that the squad was unaware of at drop time.
Although Halsey did create Kalmiya (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Kalmiya), The Fall of Reach has this to say about Cortana:
But Cortana's mind was unique among all the other AIs Dr. Halsey had encountered. An AI's matrix was created by sending electrical bursts through the neural pathways of a human brain. Those pathways were then replicated in a superconducting nano-assemblage. The technique destroyed the original human tissue, so they could only be obtained from a suitable candidate that had already died. Cortana, however, had to have the best mind available. The success of her mission and the lives of the Spartans would depend on it.
At Dr. Halsey's insistence, ONI had arranged to have her own brain carefully cloned and her memories flash-transferred to the receptacle organs. Only one of the twenty cloned brains survived the process. Cortana had literally sprung from Dr. Halsey's mind, like Athena from the head of Zeus.
So, in a way, Cortana was Dr. Halsey.
Based on the above, I think it would be seriously foolish (not to mention a let down) if there was any other AI beside Cortana that could justify the line "Yes... well... great minds do think alike."
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Based on the above, I think it would be seriously foolish (not to mention a let down) if there was any other AI beside Cortana that could justify the line "Yes... well... great minds do think alike."
Agreed. I'm just not sure how they can pull this off. First Strike definitely leaves one with the impression that contact between Cortana/Master Chief and Halsey is severed on August 30. After that date, Halsey and crew are underground without access to comm equipment until they are rescued by John et al on an unspecified date somewhere between September 7 and 12. Their departure from Reach is immediate (an evacuation) and necessarily so so they don't all DI-IE.
Wait, I just watched it again. I think what Halsey's saying - especially given all the Auntie Dot graphics, which Bungie confirms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp9Zan5BpFk) to be Auntie Dot - is that Auntie Dot, as a smart AI or "great mind," thinks like Cortana (and by extension, her) when she chooses Noble-6. This supports my hypothesis that there is a Master Chief and Noble-6 connection. OR, if I were thinking a bit more cynically, I'd say this trailer is Bungie marketing's way of really hammering home that you will play as a character who is as good as the Chief. My gut says a bit of both.
Anyhow, back to my point. So the events of the trailer seem to happen BEFORE August 30, right? BUT a continuity problem looms. This little-known trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp9Zan5BpFk) creates the impression that the Battle of Reach begins on or around July 23, 2552 - it is heavily implied, for example, that something will prevent Mommy from coming home in three days - but according to Fall of Reach, the Covenant doesn't arrive until August 30. Combat events should take place on or after August 30 to be in line with canon. It is possible that the trailer is just showing life before the attack and misleading us with the soldiers rushing up the steps. But Halsey's dialogue in "A Spartan Will Rise" also creates the impression that she's been in some kind of command and control center observing an extended battle. This really doesn't jive with the books, which demand that she be underground, cut off, within the day such that this can only be August 30. She can only comment on the battle from Reach at the beginning of the battle if that makes sense.
I guess technically Bungie can justify anything with time on the planet Reach since it's the home of the crazy time-bending crystal, but I agree with Angry Pregnant Lady: "The timing is insane." So (though I really hope not)....are there two Halseys as well?
UPDATE: Unless of course, Reach does NOT fall as we imagine - we know that characters are often under false impressions, e.g., the UNSC thinks Halsey is dead - and (as I initially speculated as a lesser possibility) the events depicted in the game are taking place after Halsey has "returned" from the shield world. It would make sense that the battle for a planet the size of Reach would be a long and protracted one. In this sense, maybe the events are occurring during or after the events of Halo 2. Still, it wouldn't explain the appearance of Cortana. Also, it seems the Covenant would have finished glassing the planet once the crystal was removed by Halsey, John, and team on September 12.
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This little-known trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp9Zan5BpFk) creates the impression that the Battle of Reach begins on or around July 23, 2552 - it is heavily implied, for example, that something will prevent Mommy from coming home in three days - but according to Fall of Reach, the Covenant doesn't arrive until August 30. Combat events should take place on or after August 30 to be in line with canon. It is possible that the trailer is just showing life before the attack and misleading us with the soldiers rushing up the steps.
The timeline in the trailer is very misleading. I've been planning to post my theories about it, but I havn't got time...
Soontm.
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According to Bungie:
http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=intel&cid=24020 (http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=intel&cid=24020)
Reach has day that is 27 hours long and its orbital period is 390 (Reach) days.
In other words, a Reach year is 1770 hours longer than an Earth year.
So if the Reach clocks were synced with the Earth clocks on Jan 1, 2001, it would be Mar 15, 2002 on Earth when Reach celebrated New Years Day on Jan 1, 2002.
Of course- just like our timezone differences on Earth- this is all relative. Nobody is actually moving faster or slower through time... they're just organizing time into different units. In the examples above, an hour is assumed to be the same length of time whether it be on Reach or on Earth.
Anyhow, this is all to say that Reach local time would be well behind Earth time. How far behind we can't really say unless someone has a reference to when the calendar began on Reach. The closest I've found is by way of the Halopedia, which cites an article in Edge Magazine as a source. It claims that Reach was colonized in the early 25th century.
If this is true (i.e. Reach time was established no earlier than 00:00 Jan 01, 2401 Earth time) then the 38 day time difference that Ark points out cannot be explained by differences between Reach local time and Earth local time. When it is August 30, 2552 on Earth, it can really be no later than 12/03/2546 on Reach.. and that's assuming Reach time began on the last possible day of the 25th century (12/31/2400).
There are a heck of a lot of assumptions here, but I feel pretty confident that the "Ark Difference" isn't caused by Reach local time.
That Halsey Journal in the Limited Edition has a lot to explain, man.
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A possible but unlikely solution to time discrepancies: all the shorts take place well before Halo: Reach.
On the Remember Reach website they have the complete versions of each of the vignettes: The Couple, The Family, The Soldiers (though strangely, not The Balloon).
In The Soldiers the three men discuss how that morning Noble Team was fighting Insurgents, not the Covenant.
Also on Remember Reach, they have the Deliver Hope (ps: does that remind anyone else of Foehammer?) video also. Bungie has stated that the events depicted did not occur during the timeline of Halo: Reach.
http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_082710 (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_082710)
But we should also remember Bungie's guide to canon:
In conclusion then the canon can be summarised as follows:
- The games rank first
- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second
- Marketing and PR materials third
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=33630397&postRepeater1-p=1 (http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=33630397&postRepeater1-p=1)
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Another new website is up, prepareforreach.ca (http://prepareforreach.ca). On it you can take a quiz to see which member of Noble Team you are.
There is also a timeline of the events on Reach(which unfortunately flashes by very quickly, and has way to scroll backward) which places the first Covenant activity around 7.15.2552.
PS: I'm apparently Kat.
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Another new website is up, prepareforreach.ca (http://prepareforreach.ca). On it you can take a quiz to see which member of Noble Team you are.
There is also a timeline of the events on Reach(which unfortunately flashes by very quickly, and has way to scroll backward) which places the first Covenant activity around 7.15.2552.
PS: I'm apparently Kat.
Well, I'll just assume it's not canon. It mentions viruses and other stuff too that has nothing to do with Reach whatsoever (at least so I assume, as said).
I'm Kat too. :P