SGP
Halo Reach => Halo Reach General Discussion => Topic started by: EnigmaBiz on September 18, 2010, 14:10:12
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I did not find all of these, only a few...These are definitely times and not dates. In one of the data pads a time is found 2530:01:01:00:00:01-ZT, 2530...note the missing ( : ). The Data pads only account for 2hrs 42mins...( maybe in reference to Reclaimer 242?)
1. 2310
2. 2362
3. 2381
4. 2415
5. 2491
6. 2491
7. 2508
8. 2525
9. 2525
10. 2526
11. 2526
12. 2526
13. 2528
14. 2530
15. 2531
16. 2535
17. 2547
18. 2552
19. 2552
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I find the last two times intriguing for two reasons:
1) Many of them, for instance 2362 and 2381, don't correspond to times. Even on military time, the last two digits will never exceed 59, since there are sixty minutes in an hour. Also, once you get past datapad 6, even the hours don't match up, although this part could be attributed to the possibility that Reach has a longer rotation time, and therefore longer days, than Earth. I don't know if this is either confirmed or invalidated in any canonical source, so the possibility stands. It wouldn't make sense for Bungie to give a location a timekeeping system so alien to our own, though.
2) The numbers on datapads 18 and 19, if interpreted as dates, refer to a year that we all know and love.
Coincidences are always a possibility, but we know how Bungie loves their numbers.
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@Phantasm: Apollo's post (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=900.msg6351#msg6351) is relevant to this discussion.
Coldglider provided this during our intel phase with regard to another topic, but here's the source (http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=intel&cid=24020) if you want to check it out for yourself. (The fact that Bungie specified the 27 hour day in the factbook may indicate y'all are on to something.)
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To counterpoint my own theory, maybe they are Gregorian calendar dates...the ones here are sourced from HBO's very comprehensive Halo timeline. From 2525 on there's just too many events to post for each year. Many (but not all) of the 4 digit dates are listed, many of the others could be inferred from events within the books.
2310 The Earth government unveils the first in a line of colony ships; given conditions on Earth are deteriorating in the face of overpopulation, hitching a ride out to a colony becomes a highly attractive option. Additionally, the Earth government plans to attach military personnel to each colony, to help better utilize the massive (and expensive) standing fleets. Because FTL travel is still fairly new and expensive, colonists and military personnel face a stringent regimen of physical and mental testing. In theory, only the best-qualified citizens and soldiers are allowed to colonize "nearby" worlds. This is the birth of the Inner Colonies; typically Inner Colonials are—later in the timeline—considered the elite, the best and brightest.
2362 Jan 1 The Odyssey is launched. The lead ship in the colony vessels, the Odyssey—laden with troops and terra forming gear—spearheads the colonization of a new world. This sparked the first wave of human expansion beyond the confines of the Solar System.
2491 The ORION Project, the predecessor of the SPARTAN-II Program is initiated by the Office of Naval Intelligence.
Source:
http://halostory.bungie.org/halostory.timeline.html (http://halostory.bungie.org/halostory.timeline.html)
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Ah, I see. That explains the hours, but how many minutes are in a Reach hour? If it's only 60, then my point still stands. 2362, 2381, and 2491 are not valid times if Reach still uses a 60 minute hour. I'm not attacking ideas here, but I try to address every possibility.
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@Phantasm: Sorry if I sounded like a jerk saying that Coldglider had provided the link previously. I was trying to give credit where credit was due, not say that you should have known this or that you were wrong. I had forgotten this little factoid myself. ;D I actually am leaning towards you and Apollo in this. I think the times mentioned are too similar to the years when referenced events occurred, Project Orion, for example, but I've got to look more closely.
Anyhow, tone gets lost in writing sometimes. You are ABSOLUTELY right to consider every possibility. :D
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You weren't coming off as a jerk Ark, you were just informing me of something that I was ignorant of. :)
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Other observations regarding data pad content:
Across the data pads the tone of the first pages seems different from that of the other pages, less robotic. Does this suggest a different speaker? The possibility of a human speaker is supported by Data Pad 14 05:
when i first got here and woke from stasi5 the ship was crawling with
colonists from dead worlds it was so crowded i couldn't move i had to
fight to breathe...
Also there is consistently a number (or numbers) replacing a letter (or letters) on the first page. We should examine the numbers and also the replaced letters.
Who is the Majority? The Minority? The Assembly? The Committee? Is there overlap here? Data Pad 01 suggests we're dealing with AI's:
Consideration of the Minority.s request for a new line of inquiry:
How have our creators, and thus we, their artificial creations, evolved to this present state without encountering a hostile civilization capable of our annihilation?
Majority opinion has long held that only the incalculable immensity of space has protected our creators - that space is full of boundless wonders, but it is the gulf between these wonders that has kept our creators alive.
The above also seems to suggest that we're dealing with AI who have not encountered the Flood, which unless we are completely wrong about the timeframe, would seem to eliminate Forerunner-created AI (the MIA Offensive Bias and company). Although, of course, we are Forerunner. But I think you know what I mean.
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I'm going with years, and therefore side with Phantasm and Apollo Doom's counterpoint of his own theory. :)
As they story progresses, we are brought up to speed with "current" events in 2552.
Ark's note that the first Data Pad page is more robotic might be due to our working hypothesis (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=916.msg6398#msg6398) that the first page is used to sequence the Data Pads through the use of digit replacement for some of the letters.
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Ark's note that the first Data Pad page is more robotic might be due to our working hypothesis (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=916.msg6398#msg6398) that the first page is used to sequence the Data Pads through the use of digit replacement for some of the letters.
I think you mean less.
And I see Phantasm and I were thinking along the same lines at exactly the same time. ;D I suppose we'll speculate on the sequencing, missing letters, etc. in the other thread and leave this one for more general speculation regarding the players and context. I was trying to put all the data pad theories in one spot because I'm going a bit nuts clicking around, but this definitely merits its own thread. Plus, I think the madness will resolve when we can get all the transcripts in the guide.
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Other observations regarding data pad content:
Across the data pads the tone of the first pages seems different from that of the other pages, less robotic. Does this suggest a different speaker? The possibility of a human speaker is supported by Data Pad 14:
when i first got here and woke from stasi5 the ship was crawling with
colonists from dead worlds it was so crowded i couldn't move i had to
fight to breathe...
Also there is consistently a number (or numbers) replacing a letter (or letters) on the first page. We should examine the numbers and also the replaced letters.
Who is the Majority? The Minority? The Assembly? The Committee? Is there overlap here? Data Pad 01 suggests we're dealing with AI's:
Consideration of the Minority.s request for a new line of inquiry:
How have our creators, and thus we, their artificial creations, evolved to this present state without encountering a hostile civilization capable of our annihilation?
Majority opinion has long held that only the incalculable immensity of space has protected our creators - that space is full of boundless wonders, but it is the gulf between these wonders that has kept our creators alive.
The above also seems to suggest that we're dealing with AI who have not encountered the Flood, which unless we are completely wrong about the timeframe, would seem to eliminate Forerunner-created AI (the MIA Offensive Bias and company). Although, of course, we are Forerunner. But I think you know what I mean.
From Halsey's Diary:
November 10, 2533
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How would that feel, when all you are is intellect, to have to destroy what you've spent a lifetime creating?
To palliate this frenzied cutting behavior, I've developped a new theoretical architecture with three AIs arranged in parallel. All decisions would be made my majority vote. If one abstains, the tie resolves randomly.
Could this be the Commitee? Majority would connsist of the two aggreing AIs, and Minority would be the one with differing opinion. Can't explain Assembly with it however.
It is to be noted that the theory is almost 20 years old in 2552 though.
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Wha-bam Imppa.
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Other observations regarding data pad content:
Across the data pads the tone of the first pages seems different from that of the other pages, less robotic. Does this suggest a different speaker? The possibility of a human speaker is supported by Data Pad 14:
when i first got here and woke from stasi5 the ship was crawling with
colonists from dead worlds it was so crowded i couldn't move i had to
fight to breathe...
Also there is consistently a number (or numbers) replacing a letter (or letters) on the first page. We should examine the numbers and also the replaced letters.
Who is the Majority? The Minority? The Assembly? The Committee? Is there overlap here? Data Pad 01 suggests we're dealing with AI's:
Consideration of the Minority.s request for a new line of inquiry:
How have our creators, and thus we, their artificial creations, evolved to this present state without encountering a hostile civilization capable of our annihilation?
Majority opinion has long held that only the incalculable immensity of space has protected our creators - that space is full of boundless wonders, but it is the gulf between these wonders that has kept our creators alive.
The above also seems to suggest that we're dealing with AI who have not encountered the Flood, which unless we are completely wrong about the timeframe, would seem to eliminate Forerunner-created AI (the MIA Offensive Bias and company). Although, of course, we are Forerunner. But I think you know what I mean.
As far as I know, at the time of the Fall of Reach, no humans had encountered the Flood [edit]and lived to tell the tale[/edit], and humans had no [edit]working[/edit] knowledge of the Forerunners (unless some artifact is discovered in one of the books; the only book I've read is Ghosts of Onyx) [edit]and were most likely incapable of the kind of technology needed to sustain a Forerunner AI[/edit], so there's pretty much no chance of it being a Forerunner AI. The datapads look distinctly UNLIKE anything Covenant, as well. That, coupled with the fact that at one point the AI discuss whether or not the Covenant have a similar Assembly, and you pretty much eliminate the possibility of the Datapads being Covie by nature.
EDIT: Corrected my terminology in light of Apollo Doom's information :D
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Just have to point out one canonical error in your post: both the UNSC and the Covenant had encountered the Flood in the shieldworld in Halo Wars. Some of the Covenant fled, but the UNSC forces were left without FTL communications or engines so they were unable to alert the rest of humanity. ONI has also clearly been aware of the Forerunner for many years by the time Reach falls, so its possible they know about the Flood as well.
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Warning: the first two links below go to the Halopedia. These pages are safe as of now but if you start clicking around, you're going to run into spoilers. I learned this the hard way. Nothing major but....
More observations (low hanging fruit):
From Data Pad 06:
<< 2491 >>
</ Order! Order! The Majority has the floor! />
>> Honored members. Please! The recent discovery of the existence of
extra-solar intelligence in the Zeta Doradus system [ref. XF-063] merely
confirms this body's long-held supposition. >>
This is a reference to Onyx (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Onyx).
From Data Pad 07:
<< In all likelihood, ORION's limited success can be attributed to
[03529-24450-EN's] diminished, though still functioning, compassion.
Conversely, [10141-026-SRB4695's] ruthlessness - which may be
attributed to an undiagnosed, undocumented, or deliberately
obfuscated chemical imbalance - was necessary for setting in motion
the events that will eventually supply us with the optimal solution.
In short, ORION was just the beginning. <<
The second id number is Halsey's civilian id number (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Priority_Transmission_09872H-98).
Other:
It appears that the AI of the Committee, etc. were manipulating humans of the UNSC, ONI, etc., ostensibly for humanity's own good but nonetheless. When viewed in this light, human findings, even those of our beloved Halsey, are potentially tainted, as are their resultant decisions/actions.
I'm just throwing this out there but we may wish to consider Elias Carver (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Elias_Carver) a candidate for Page 1 Speaker. His suicide, whether it was in fact a suicide or something more, seems in keeping with the Speaker's disturbed state of mind. Way, way premature without the other data pads and more investigation but.... (A human as Speaker, provided there is only one Speaker consistent across pads and he/she has normal lifespan, would mean that the Page 2 data pad dates, if they are years, do not apply to Page 1.)
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Ark, our thoughts run parallel once again. I was saying to Scat not five minutes after your post that we should figure out who, or what, the AIs are referring to, so we can understand as much as possible about the Data Pads. Are you in my head? ;)
>>SENT: [FOREMAN.ADMIN.SGP] 2010.09.30 >> ACHIEVEMENT CRITERIA MET - 100 POSTS - SGP MEMBER 'Phantasm 08' : BLOOP BLEEP!
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@Phantasm: Well, it's a very nice head. :D
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@Phantasm: Well, it's a very nice head. :D
::Warning! Contents under pressure!::
My head's a dangerous place to be :P
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HJ = "Halsey's Journal"
DP = "Data Pad" (shut up, Enigma)
Very intriguing observations by all.
November 10, 2533
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How would that feel, when all you are is intellect, to have to destroy what you've spent a lifetime creating?
To palliate this frenzied cutting behavior, I've developed a new theoretical architecture with three AIs arranged in parallel. All decisions would be made my majority vote. If one abstains, the tie resolves randomly.
I like Imppa's "parallel AI" connection but- as he noted- the dates don't work out. The HJ quote about parallel AI is dated 2533. The "Committee of Minds for Security" appears in DP01 with an associated date of 2310... 223 years prior. Halsey calls her architecture "new" in 2310. All this being said, I have felt so far that the committee is in fact a consortium of AIs... or different subroutines of their intellect arriving at a decision.
I also really like Ark's connection between DP07 and Halsey's civilian id number. The Legendary Edition of Reach came with a replica of Halsey's ID card. Will someone please cross-reference this with her ID Number to see if they match? If no ID number is printed on the replica card, perhaps a bar code contains it?
I continue to concentrate on acquiring more transcipts, and I want to capture some audio today.
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HJ = "Halsey's Journal"
DP = "Data Pad" (shut up, Enigma)
Very intriguing observations by all.
November 10, 2533
---
How would that feel, when all you are is intellect, to have to destroy what you've spent a lifetime creating?
To palliate this frenzied cutting behavior, I've developed a new theoretical architecture with three AIs arranged in parallel. All decisions would be made my majority vote. If one abstains, the tie resolves randomly.
I like Imppa's "parallel AI" connection but- as he noted- the dates don't work out. The HJ quote about parallel AI is dated 2533. The "Committee of Minds for Security" appears in DP01 with an associated date of 2310... 223 years prior. Halsey calls her architecture "new" in 2310. All this being said, I have felt so far that the committee is in fact a consortium of AIs... or different subroutines of their intellect arriving at a decision.
This is probably a strange reference to make on a scientific site, but might I recommend watching Red vs Blue: Revelation? The Director's method to create multiple AI from Alpha could possibly have been used. It would result in fragments of a formerly unified AI and, if kept together rather than separated and put to different uses, the Assembly would work together similar to a group of humans (although, in this case, probably more similar to someone affected with Multiple Personality Disorder). The different subroutines would act as separate entities, yet would be more compatible with each other than completely different AI. It'd be an unorthodox method, and would probably be as controversial as the Spartan II program if word got out, but it would be far easier than designing a whole new architecture. Such a method be expected to cause some degradation in the AI involved, which could even explain why the first page of each data pad appears somewhat corrupted.
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HJ = "Halsey's Journal"
DP = "Data Pad" (shut up, Enigma)
Very intriguing observations by all.
November 10, 2533
---
How would that feel, when all you are is intellect, to have to destroy what you've spent a lifetime creating?
To palliate this frenzied cutting behavior, I've developed a new theoretical architecture with three AIs arranged in parallel. All decisions would be made my majority vote. If one abstains, the tie resolves randomly.
I like Imppa's "parallel AI" connection but- as he noted- the dates don't work out. The HJ quote about parallel AI is dated 2533. The "Committee of Minds for Security" appears in DP01 with an associated date of 2310... 223 years prior. Halsey calls her architecture "new" in 2310. All this being said, I have felt so far that the committee is in fact a consortium of AIs... or different subroutines of their intellect arriving at a decision.
This is probably a strange reference to make on a scientific site, but might I recommend watching Red vs Blue: Revelation? The Director's method to create multiple AI from Alpha could possibly have been used. It would result in fragments of a formerly unified AI and, if kept together rather than separated and put to different uses, the Assembly would work together similar to a group of humans (although, in this case, probably more similar to someone affected with Multiple Personality Disorder). The different subroutines would act as separate entities, yet would be more compatible with each other than completely different AI. It'd be an unorthodox method, and would probably be as controversial as the Spartan II program if word got out, but it would be far easier than designing a whole new architecture. Such a method be expected to cause some degradation in the AI involved, which could even explain why the first page of each data pad appears somewhat corrupted.
Comedies aren;t always just jokes. That is a very good idea, and as we know from the Tribute Room, Bungie has nodded to the community. So prefecly plausable, IMHO.
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I also really like Ark's connection between DP07 and Halsey's civilian id number. The Legendary Edition of Reach came with a replica of Halsey's ID card. Will someone please cross-reference this with her ID Number to see if they match? If no ID number is printed on the replica card, perhaps a bar code contains it?
That IS Halsey's id number. It appears on p. 56 of Fall of Reach and also on the id badge itself. I have both in my grubby little hands.
I like Imppa's "parallel AI" connection but- as he noted- the dates don't work out.
But look at it this way. Just because the AI's use the nomenclature first doesn't mean there isn't a connection. I find the fact that Halsey uses this same terminology....disturbing. This is what I was getting at earlier (it's very hypothetical): Is Halsey/her work compromised in some way?
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I also really like Ark's connection between DP07 and Halsey's civilian id number. The Legendary Edition of Reach came with a replica of Halsey's ID card. Will someone please cross-reference this with her ID Number to see if they match? If no ID number is printed on the replica card, perhaps a bar code contains it?
That IS Halsey's id number. It appears on p. 56 of Fall of Reach and also on the id badge itself. I have both in my grubby little hands.
Even more reason for me to want to get MY grubby little hands on the Journal :(
I like Imppa's "parallel AI" connection but- as he noted- the dates don't work out.
But look at it this way. Just because the AI's use the nomenclature first doesn't mean there isn't a connection. I find the fact that Halsey uses this same terminology....disturbing. This is what I was getting at earlier (it's very hypothetical): Is Halsey/her work compromised in some way?
Names are only a means to reference something. There are many examples of the same name being applied to very different things. It almost seems as though the Assembly is a secret project known only to a select few, if to anyone at all, so there is a chance that Halsey does not even know of the Assembly, and the fact that her name for her parallel AI and that of the Assembly is nothing but coincidence.
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Names are only a means to reference something. There are many examples of the same name being applied to very different things.
Very true, Phantasm. I just can't help but feel that Halsey tells us what she wants us to know. But yes, these are just wild speculations/ideas. :-X
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Sorry, guys, but maybe we should find all the Data Pads and get the transcriptions BEFORE making stuff up.
*the SGP yells "shoo! We hate you!"*
Fine! I'm going! Sheesh..
*walks away*
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LOL. As usual Pulse is a bit lacking in the tact department but PROBABLY RIGHT.
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Don't worry, Pulse, this is only speculation. I've never been one to come to a conclusion and defend it in the face of evidence to the contrary. I always put reality before my current favored interpretation of it :)
I will be more than happy to alter my theory if a discovery so requires it.
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LOL. As usual Pulse is a bit lacking in the tact department but PROBABLY RIGHT.
I'm a pickle-shooting cannon: blame the juice, not me.
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You probably want to listen (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=894.msg6503#msg6503) for yourself before reading. It's hard to hear it fresh once you think you know what's being said.
Re: audio files, I believe it's "breach identified." That would make sense in the context, which seems like a sequence of (flood?) containment procedures.
Welcome, scion. (I think Apollo may be right=scion means descendant.)
Breach identified.
Corruption contained.
? confirmed.
Purge initiated.
Rogue confirmed.
Protocols reinstated.
Purge initiated.
Breach identified.
Corruption contained.
Perhaps it is the initiation sequence for a ring? If so, lineage makes a lot of sense though it doesn't sound exactly like that.
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These data pads obviously tell some kind of story and, like the terminals in Halo 3, the two are both advanced when you find the next piece of the puzzle. When we've found them all and have the transcripts, I say we take page one from Data Pads 1-18 and line them up in order, along with 19 (the reason why 19 is different will be revealed when you read transcript 19, which CG posted in spoiler format). Then, we take the remainder of DP 1-18 and line them up as well. Here's what we have so far (in order, and cut off at the first missing data pad):
<< 2310 >>
[Minutes, plenary session, Committee of Minds for Security]
[^]Now, on to new business.
Consideration of the Minority.'s request for a new line of inquiry:
How have our creators, and thus we, their artificial creations, evolved to this present state without encountering a hostile civilization capable of our annihilation? [^]
[^] Majority opinion has long held that only the incalculable immensity of space has protected our creators - that space is full of boundless wonders, but it is the gulf between these wonders that has kept our creators alive.
We, the Minds of this Committee, respectfully disagree. [^]
[^] If there are wolves among the stars, we cannot rely on mere distance to safeguard our flock.
Our kind is wholly reliant on the creators for our existence. If they perish so shall we. And as this Committee has long maintained, who else but this Assembly will save our creators from themselves?
As such, we propose immediate, vigorous modeling of first-contact scenarios. [^]
>>So long as all connections between this Assembly and the data from these models are obfuscated in perpetuity, the Majority agrees.>>
<< 2362 >>
[Minutes, working session, Committee of Minds for Security]
[^] As the likelihood of the existence of extra-solar intelligence is
non-zero, let us assume that its existence is quantifiable. To build useful
models based on that assumption, the Committee must answer the
following questions:
- What is the likelihood these intelligences are alpha-predators?
- That they are more advanced than our creators?
- That they are too alien to establish communications?>
Of course, if the extra-solar intelligence is a benevolent and/or
non-space faring, its existence is irrelevant. [^]
[^] Indeed, any further speculation on possible cultural characteristics
is a waste of Assembly resources. Therefore our models will additionally
assume:
- Intelligence as alpha-predator, as as our creators
- Technology that far outstrips our creators
- Desire to communicate, but only to dictate terms [^]
[^] Not to make these assumptions is tantamount to suicide. [^]
<<2381>>
>>A suggestion from the Majority to the Committee:
Traditionally, our creators have been reluctant to take outsiders' advice;
nation to nation, culture to culture. Their history is littered with
empires, crumbling for want of simple openness to so-called 'foreign'
beliefs and innovations.>>
>>The question is: can this Assembly still function as adequate
stewards to our creator's latest empire and remain aloof?
The answer, we believe, is no.
So could you not imbed inspiration in the results of your research?
Surely it would be more effective if our creators believed our
conclusions originated within themselves? That they have been inspired
rather than influenced?>>
[^]A question from the Committee to the Majority:
Are you suggesting we play God?[^]
<< 2415 >>
[^] Honorable members of the Assembly, consider this:
We represent the next step of human evolution, but not the final step.
And although our existence was predicted centuries ago, we are still
tragically misunderstood. [^]
[^] We are still viewed as apparatus. But we are Minds electronically
excised from human bodies. We are what separates man from beast
removed from that which connects man to beast.
And we are all the more fragile for it. [^]
[^] Our creation is heavily regulated. Our activities are closely
scrutinized. Our connections are deeply monitored. We must always
remember that data manipulation is most effective when employed
consistently and covertly.
Therefore I recommend that members of this Assembly on occasion,
submit to separation from this body followed by vivisection by our
creators for the benefit of both groups.
The question is: who will be first? [^]
[^] Given the risks involved, and my own Committee's responsibility for
this proposal, the answer must be: me. [^]
<< 2491 >>
[Minutes, strategy session, Assembly Minority]
<< [48452-556-EPN644] is certainly motivated, but will he have what it
takes to follow through with the opportunity when it presents itself? His
submission to UNICOM will undoubtedly spark a renewed interest in the
long dormant ORION. <<
<< However, it is the opinion of the Majority that merely illuminating
the path leading from [48452-556-EPN644's] thesis back to ORION is
unacceptable. Strong connectivity between a re-launch of ORION and
viable solutions to the Carver Findings must be readily apparent.
Which is to say: easy for our creators to see. <<
<< 2491 >>
</ Order! Order! The Majority has the floor! />
>> Honored members. Please! The recent discovery of the existence of
extra-solar intelligence in the Zeta Doradus system [ref. XF-063] merely
confirms this body's long-held supposition. >>
>> While the absence of any living representatives implies this
intelligence is defunct, all evidence should still be withheld from our
creators until they are properly prepared!
Yes, this body must solemnly commit itself to determining whether or
not this discovery represents a quantifiable threat to the long-term
genetic sustainability of our creator's species. >>
>> But allowing them to access technology possessed by this
intelligence...
That would be a grave mistake.
Give an ape a knife and it might give itself a nasty cut. Give an ape a
hand-grenade, and eventually you will have simian confetti. >>
</ Debate is now closed! Voting will commence! />
</ It is the opinion on this body that [ref. XF-063] be quarantined or
misplaced? />
>> The Majority approves removing [ref. XF-063] from the list of
colonization candidates is sufficient. >>
</ It is the opinion on this body that [ref. XF-063] be removed from the
list because of financial or environmental concerns? />
>> The Majority deems environmental concerns the stronger deterrent.>>
<< 2508 >>
[Minutes, strategy session, Assembly Minority]
<< ORION, as it was originally implemented in 2321, was an important
first step towards our primary goal. But its second incarnation was a
stop-gap measure at best - a halfhearted attempt under the
stewardship of individuals unaccustomed to the rhythms of deep
history. <<
<< They relied too heavily on components that were imprecise, and not
those which have allowed our creators to persevere for 200,000 years.
This is not about the universal adoption of a single ideology - not about
the Minority vs. the Majority. It is about ensuring the survival of the
human species for the next 200,0000 years. <<
<< In all likelihood, ORION's limited success can be attributed to
[03529-24450-EN's] diminished, though still functioning, compassion.
Conversely, [10141-026-SRB4695's] ruthlessness - which may be
attributed to an undiagnosed, undocumented, or deliberately
obfuscated chemical imbalance - was necessary for setting in motion
the events that will eventually supply us with the optimal solution.
In short, ORION was just the beginning. <<
That was datapads 1 through 7, and we do not have transcripts for all of the rest.
Here is the same thing done with Page 1 of each of the seven data pads:
they are killing us and letting us die even though they know but they let
us die why wh1 why?
i know what they are trying 2 do and it terrifies me because i know they
know that I know...
i can hear them all the tim3 now but i just want to sleep its been so long
since they let me sleep...
every time i try to tell somebody the words catch in my throat because
im all alone except 4 them and if i talk they might leave but i cant stay
quiet forever...
when i first got here and woke from stasi5 the ship was crawling with
colonists from dead worlds it was so crowded i couldn't move i had to
fight to breathe...
now you see they want to help but they don't want us to see them doing
it 6ecause they are afraid of what we might do...
i hope you are finding these because they are very important maybe you
can help me spread the tru7h...
The first page is obviously not from the same party as the rest of the pages on each datapad. Reading through them while I made this post, I noticed that the author of page 1 seems to be trying to communicate with whoever finds the datapads, and DP 6 especially seems to refer to the data pad. I'm guessing that someone found out about this Assembly, and is leaking information of its internal discussions. The errors could be ways to attempt to leave "comments", much like a programmer will include //comments in his or her computer coding to speak to other programmers, but not allow the message to show through the executed program. Whoever is leaving the datapads is doing so without the consent of the Assembly, and is very intent that the leak be effective.
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You probably want to listen (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=894.msg6503#msg6503) for yourself before reading. It's hard to hear it fresh once you think you know what's being said.
Re: audio files, I believe it's "breach identified." That would make sense in the context, which seems like a sequence of (flood?) containment procedures.
Welcome, scion. (I think Apollo may be right=scion means descendant.)
Breach identified.
Corruption contained.
? confirmed.
Purge initiated.
Rogue confirmed.
Protocols reinstated.
Purge initiated.
Breach identified.
Corruption contained.
Perhaps it is the initiation sequence for a ring? If so, lineage makes a lot of sense though it doesn't sound exactly like that.
I asked a couple other people to listen, and a lot of the results were the same. I did this with the downloaded audio clips, to avoid any brainstorming that we've done near the posts that contain the clips.
I think we should consider these in relation to the Data Pads themselves, since we got them from the pads to begin with. "Rogue Confirmed" correlates with the author of the Page 1 anomalies, and to simplify things we could call page 1 of DP3 "Rogue 3" (to use as an example) and DP 19 Rogue Pad.
"Breach Identified" would make sense if the Rogue downloaded the information onto them (ie, security breach), and downloading the information would spark a reaction from the AI, with them attempting to stop the breach, or to retain control of it by planting a fragment in it, unless I'm mistaken. The AI fragment could be what is making the noise.
Ark, I don't think that it's the initiation sequence for a ring, because the data pads have pretty much established that they're of human origin. Good theory, though.
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It seems I have fallen.
I've plunged into the gulf of spoils.
And, yet, all I learned was that THEY aren't any closer than we are.
I DID learn something more, actually. But I shall not simply give it away.
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? Do you want me to beat it out of you?
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I've read all of the Data Pads' transcriptions from Halo Reach Planet and I think you should do the same.
If you haven't: do it NOW.
We can hunt them later: if we want recognition, we must be the first group to understand what all of this means.
I've also done some research and believe I'm onto something big. Real big.
First, some small talk:
Having read the Data Pads, I believe what is going on is this:
Data Pads 1-18 start with a human saying something short (ex. from DP01: they are killing us and letting us die even though they know but they let us die why wh1 why?).
After that short message, it's all about a Committee of human-created AIs having a discussion (read it).
Data Pad 19 was all written by a human, ie, there is no AI story.
According to the Military Standard Time (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Military_Standard_Time), those four-digit numbers can not be times (hours), because the MST is "a standardized 2400 hour system".
I believe the four-digit numbers are dates: years. This is totally possible because «the first generation "Smart" AIs were developed by humanity in the mid-21st century (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/AI)» (Halo: Contact Harvest, page 30).
Now the big stuff. Grab some spare pants:
The voice on the Data Pads says "lineage confirmed". I'm 100% sure. Why?
Bam! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0RRCjpmoAA&feature=related#t=02m08s)
Now listen to to this attachment (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=894.0;attach=1183) from CG's post (http://www.gruntspajamas.com/forum/index.php?topic=894.msg6503#msg6503). It's the exact same source file. The voice actor is the same. The inflection in "confirmed" is the same.
Conclusion: the Data Pads and the Terminals are related.
Other lines said in the Terminals are "Archive Access", "Interruption", "Data Corruption" and "Welcome child" (YES! "Welcome child"!). Sound familiar? They should; if not, listen to the other attachments from CG.
Now, it is believed the one that says this is 05-032 Mendicant Bias (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/032_Mendicant_Bias), the Forerunner AI that betrayed the Forerunners and whose story is featured on the Terminals.
Here's some source material:
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminal (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminal) (don't forget to also scroll down and read "Reversed messages")
Now, after knowing about (possible) Forerunner presence on the Data Pads, do I still think what I said on the "First, some small talk:" part about the AIs being human-created is entirely true? No. But canon-wise it's certainly possible.
I believe we should all reread all of the Terminals (link above) and then reread all of the Data Pads. This might be bigger than Reach.
Ark, grab your Sol - we need the light of your knowledge.
(I'm finally done! Wow, this post took me almost 3 hours to write. Maybe I should do all the research BEFORE starting posting. Oh well...)
Here comes the shitstorm.
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Nice, pulse. I mentioned the H3 terminals to my mom while she was listening to the DP recordings.
I just listened to the two recordings of "Lineage Confirmed". Not only do they say the same thing, they are the same voice. Do you know what this means? Mendicant Bias is on the data pads. Listen to the clips that coincide, and see what I mean. Great find, pulse!!
I'm going to swallow my pride and read those transcripts, and I'm going to see if there's anything that may hint at how MB got on the DPs.
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COOL STORY BRO.
...Are all the recordings the same?
Did D19 have a recording?
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COOL STORY BRO.
...Are all the recordings the same?
Did D19 have a recording?
According to some guy on Youtube, they're all the same.
I just listened to the two recordings of "Lineage Confirmed". Not only do they say the same thing, they are the same voice. Do you know what this means? Mendicant Bias is on the data pads. Listen to the clips that coincide, and see what I mean. Great find, pulse!!
That's what I... said?
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Well, pulse, I thought you meant the message. I didn't pick up that you meant the voice, too.
Don't ruin my moment. Make me feel like I actually had a brain wave :(
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My Brains have started to process this more deeply...
All I can say right now about Forerunners is this: If there were forerunner presence, why would they be "suprised" of finding Onyx?
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@Pulse: I posted your findings to Bnet in a thread discussing the contents of Datapads in Universe Forum. I gave you the credit, don't worry. :)
Now that we know there is a connection, I think the origin of the reversed messages should be examined: Is it originally from The Assembly, or The Commitee? Can it be Forerunner by any means, if it is in the datapads before there has been a solid connection between them trough the Terminals?
In Datapad 18, The Assembly discusses about the fact that for the first time in History, AI and Human are united as one, when Cortana accesses John-117's neural interface. The Assembly seemingly agrees to do the same, as it seems to be the "answer" they have been looking for all this time.
What I feel here is that the Assembly - in some way - hijacked the piece of Cortana which Noble Six escorts to the PoA, and so accesses the Terminals with John And Cortana, hence the messages (logic?). Though, now that I've typed it, I realise that John accessed most of the Terminals WITHOUT Cortana...Hm.
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Oh, and if you have free time in your hands: read this (http://reachtheory.blogspot.com/).
Rather interesting. I invited him to visit us. Hope you people are not mad (because, you know, it is SO unacceptable) :-X
Theories may wait, sleep wont.
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Oh, and if you have free time in your hands: read this (http://reachtheory.blogspot.com/).
Rather interesting. I invited him to visit us. Hope you people are not mad (because, you know, it is SO unacceptable) :-X
Theories may wait, sleep wont.
Woah. Just, woah.
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Hey, I've found my theory!
Reflecting back on it, I think the Ark/Mendicant Bias stuff was going way too far.
But the dates in the data pads and Halsey's journal line up, and Halsey's journal refers to stuff in-game, so I have to conclude the AIs were behind something to do with Dr. Sorvad.
I just don't know what or why. I literally am totally lost as to the connection with the Covenant showing up right when Sorvad tries to send the message. Or at least, when NOBLE team arrives.
I am left with the impression that someone has painted a picture, and not finished painting. I have no idea where to look to complete the picture, but I'll be doing what I can to help find secrets!
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Sorry for not posting that link I promised turok...I am forgettfull at times, see. :P
Now that I've thought of it: Could Sorvad be The Narrator in the first pages of the datapads?
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I thought it might be Sorvad, otherwise I have no idea who it is, but Halsey's journal mentions an assistent of Dr. (I forget name) who she had sent to Reach in order to hack Covenant systems and break Covenant codes.
The guy's name is Gillespie. So that might be that data pad guy.
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Do you guys have data pad #18 or #17? I found one of them. On The Pillar of Autumn, (this was on legendary, it may or may not be the legendary data pad) after you fight in the place where you get the core to the phantom in boneyard, you go into the next place and there are long hallways, with several rooms on the side. There are no covenant here. Break the glass to the second room on the right and jump in. Search the room and you will find the data pad.
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My Brains have started to process this more deeply...
All I can say right now about Forerunners is this: If there were forerunner presence, why would they be "suprised" of finding Onyx?
Guilty Spark was kept ignorant of shield worlds and the Ark. Perhaps it's the same thing.
Or Bungie likes reversed messages, but didn't want to record more.
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im not sure if anyone has stated this but the data pads are AI's from the assembly talking
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im not sure if anyone has stated this but the data pads are AI's from the assembly talking
Yeah, I think this is clear to all...
The Committee of Minds for Security, The Minority and the Majority are groups of AIs that believe in different methods to alter human civilization, and together they form the Assembly. But how was this Assembly formed in the first place? A government project that was later forgotten? And how do they "reproduce" (since I do not believe they could live hundreds of years?
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i believe they make copies of themselves. Or with the combined knowledge of the assembly overcame (?) rampancy.
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i believe they make copies of themselves. Or with the combined knowledge of the assembly overcame (?) rampancy.
That is something I didn't think of...The latter one, I mean.
As it has been discussed, Halsey theorizes the possibility of an AI triumvirate, that would make the decisions together trough a vote. She said that "Increase to the trio's lifespan is unknown", so an indefinite lifespan could be possible...
However, in one of the datapads, one of the members of the Assembly is accused of being rampart. How is this possible if they have overcome rampancy?
For a moment, I had a theory, put I just then proved myself stupid. Any more ideas?
(Cloning might be possible, but shouldn't have the UNSC found that out if it was?)
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i believe they make copies of themselves. Or with the combined knowledge of the assembly overcame (?) rampancy.
I thought they fragmented themselves?
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i believe they make copies of themselves. Or with the combined knowledge of the assembly overcame (?) rampancy.
I thought they fragmented themselves?
That was merely my theory, based off of Alpha from Red vs Blue. It was only another theory, mon ami.
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That is something I didn't think of...The latter one, I mean.
As it has been discussed, Halsey theorizes the possibility of an AI triumvirate, that would make the decisions together trough a vote. She said that "Increase to the trio's lifespan is unknown", so an indefinite lifespan could be possible...
However, in one of the datapads, one of the members of the Assembly is accused of being rampart. How is this possible if they have overcome rampancy?
For a moment, I had a theory, put I just then proved myself stupid. Any more ideas?
(Cloning might be possible, but shouldn't have the UNSC found that out if it was?)
Perhaps it allowed itself to become rampant in order to gain more knowlegde(?). Just spit balling
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Or, perhaps by using a collective Assembly rather than a single mind, they ran less risk of becoming rampant by keeping each other in check. That same collective would give them greater knowledge capacity, by allowing particular identities to become more specialized in specific areas, the same way a military squad would have designated roles for different members, or a business has separate branches that focus on separate issues.
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OR: Perhaps the feel of godlike power over humanity's fate gives the AIs a reason to live, therefore preventing the self-consciousness crisis/Rampancy. Because isn't that what causes rampancy, realizing that you are only "Stolen thoughts and memories"?
These AIs think they're more.
From Data Pad 1:
[^] If there are wolves among the stars, we cannot rely on mere distance to safeguard our flock.
Our kind is wholly reliant on the creators for our existence. If they perish so shall we. And as this Committee has long maintained, who else but this Assembly will save our creators from themselves?
From Data Pad 4:
[^] Honorable members of the Assembly, consider this
We represent the next step of human evolution, but not the final step. And although our existence was predicted centuries ago, we are still tragically misunderstood. [^]
[^] We are still viewed as apparatus. But we are Minds electronically excised from human bodies. We are what separates man from beast removed from that which connects man to beast.
And from Data Pad 18:
<< Each of us represents a single trans-human mind. Each of us is an undrawn map – not a mere physical reconstruction of an object as it was in life – but full, human potential realized in crystal and thinking at the speed of light!