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SGP Task Force: The Librarians / Re: SGP: Dr. Catherine Halsey and the ONI Memorial

« on: October 25, 2020, 01:48:06 »

To my knowledge, the Beatrice first appears in First Strike, which was published in 2003 and which Nylund also wrote, but it doesn't seem that the ship was named until Ghosts of Onyx, which was published in April 2007.  (This is after a skim of Strike.  I don't own Onyx =I could be mistaken.)  So I would say since Bungie didn't begin work on ODST until 2008, either a) the name Beatrice is not a reference to the Divine Comedy but rather a happy coincidence, b) Nylund is originating the Dante connection here, or c) the Dante connection is part of the Halo Bible and existed prior to ODST as evidenced by Nylund's use of it.  In support of the idea of ship name as reference, Halsey does have tremendous guilt about her role in the creation of the Spartan-II's and her mission to Onyx, which she undertakes aboard the Beatrice, is, in her mind, an attempt to redeem herself:  "There was so much to do and so little time left for her, the Spartans, and the human race.  She could do something, though.  She'd save them one person at a time, starting with Linda, then Kelly, and then a handful of important others.  Of course, it meant betraying everyone who trusted her - but if that was the only way Dr. Halsey could save herself, and her soul, then she'd do it."  (p. 249, FS).  Though I don't immediately associate Onyx with heaven or hell (outside of its being a Forerunner construct), it is the location of the portal to the shield world, which is - or at least appears to be - a paradiso of sorts.

As for Se�or Nylund, his role in the development of the Halo canon is unquestionable.  He is the author of (imo) the most important books:  The Fall of Reach, First Strike, and Ghosts of Onyx.  (Contact Harvest is also important, but it's still a prequel, i.e., it doesn't deal with John, Halsey, Cortana, etc.)  Nylund also wrote "The Impossible Life and Possible Death of Preston J. Cole" in Evolutions, so he appears to be Bungie's go-to person for fleshing out the lore.  (Cole appears elsewhere in the canon - Buckell's Cole Protocol is named after him - but it is here, in the short story, where we learn the most about the character.)  Nylund features prominently in the Halo Legends commentaries.  Unlike Dietz and Buckell, whose books are basically action pieces, Nylund is definitely more than a hired gun.

Plus, Lucifer is a character in his current non-Halo Mortal Coils series, so yeah, he's probably read Divine Comedy. Least he should have.   

P.S.  Here's an Weekly Update interview with Nylund where he discusses Onyx and the story process.

Quite possibly the longest necropost in SGP history, but I believe we may have found an answer to your proposal. The prophets, in their Halo 2 realization, seem to be a direct reference to Satan as depicted in Dante's Inferno. Their color and presentation order correlates exactly with Dante's Satan; here's some evidence: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hbhMXBtE2QOB6F3hsy62UN7UdKFF1HO8emLPK_jDAJU/edit?usp=sharing . Additionally, their latin name (and this is original Bungie lore, not 343 lore) is Perfidia vermis, or Worms of Treachery. Remind you of a certain circle ? There's also of course the biblical correlation: Isaiah 14:13 -"I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High" (in reference to Lucifer). This supports your "c) the Dante connection is part of the Halo Bible and existed prior to ODST as evidenced by Nylund's use of it" point, and I think opens up the Halo universe to a whole new level of literary scrutiny.

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SGP Task Force: 7 / Re: J Banner 7

« on: October 02, 2020, 12:50:58 »

Hmm, ok, you are right about the similarity (though it doesn't seem that all the gold dots are present in all of the banners?). Supposedly it could decode into something else than letters, but I agree that the simple explanation of "looks cool" is enough, though of course the world building angle of "This is something that the trash trucks [Elephants] could read" is also nice.

Oops, I hope they do, I just pulled the banners from the discord  . I think the Oliphant angle is bunk, as these doors are everywhere and anywhere, including balconies on Kikowani and inside Squidhenge. I believe it is just a technique to use the same assets on multiple doors and not have them all (appear to) say the same thing. For example, if the sign read "Cafeteria" instead, you'd think "Hmm. Why are there hundreds of cafeterias in Mombasa streets?". Instead, you see a complex barcode, and you assume them to be different, providing the illusion of many different labels throughout the city. Now, we of course just see 3 J banners, but the average player is going to see them as unique to the door they are over, which provides great immersion.

Now, could a dev use this opportunity to shove an egg in there? Sure, but at this point I doubt that's the case.

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SGP Task Force: 7 / Re: J Banner 7

« on: October 02, 2020, 12:18:28 »

Each J banner is colored unique, and then some of the areas that are consistent on all three are marked gold. For there to be this much replication in the banners means that either someone copy pasted and edited them to look different, or the data is 3 different things that all say almost the same thing (given that the structure does not vary by much at all). We’re talking letter differences by 1 and such.  The former seems more reasonable at this point considering everything has been exhausted now. I think it honestly might just be a cool futuristic look, much like greebles on a spaceship.

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SGP Task Force: 7 / Re: J Banner 7

« on: October 02, 2020, 11:59:42 »

I made this to show that it really looks like something that’s been copy pasted 2 times and altered; they all share the same basic structure. This compounded by the fact that the Destiny J banner is 4x17 makes it pretty clear to me that it’s just aesthetic.

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SGP Task Force: The Librarians / Re: Halo 3: ODST & Dante's Inferno - New Connections.

« on: August 28, 2020, 01:00:36 »

Great work Dashie Jinx, and an admirable first post! In some cases, the connections made in this theory are palpable; in others, my jaded 11 year strong egg-hunting self grows skeptic. Here's my view on each of the Circle/Level relationships.

Mombasa Streets / Circle 1: Limbo
A perfect fit. There's not much to say that isn't obvious here, but I will leave you with the first lines of the Canto that introduces Circle 1:

Broke the deep lethargy within my head
  A heavy thunder, so that I upstarted,
  Like to a person who by force is wakened;

And round about I moved my rested eyes,
  Uprisen erect, and steadfastly I gazed,
  To recognise the place wherein I was.

True is it, that upon the verge I found me
  Of the abysmal valley dolorous,
  That gathers thunder of infinite ululations.

Obscure, profound it was, and nebulous,
  So that by fixing on its depths my sight
  Nothing whatever I discerned therein.

"Let us descend now into the blind world"

If that ain't a word for word description of what happens to Rookie when he wakes up, I don't know what is.

Tayari Plaza / Circle 2: Lust
This one seems decently cogent, with the mission further developing the relationship between Buck and Dare:

Romeo: "She ever tell you what she wanted?"
Buck: "No.... never."

I do especially like the connection you made there with the victims of this circle not being able to see their lovers.

Uplift Reserve / Circle 3: Gluttony
It is here where I grow weary, thinking that maybe it is simply a strike of coincidence that things fell into place for the first two levels. I haven't played this level in years, but I can't think of anything very relevant off the top of my head. Yeah, there's dead zebras, but they haven't stuffed themselves to death, they were just killed by the covenant. The giant 3 is definitely something I'd be willing to accept as reference if the 8 other levels fell into place, but alone it could be anything. Hopefully more investigation reveals something about this level. I'd be interested in viewing the maps of Uplift Reserve.


Kizingo Blvd / Circle 4: Greed
Pretty neutral on this one. Yeah, Mickey blowing his way through the covenant defenses is kinda like

Here saw I people, more than elsewhere, many,
  On one side and the other, with great howls,
  Rolling weights forward by main force of chest.

They clashed together, and then at that point
  Each one turned backward, rolling retrograde,
  Crying, "Why keepest?" and, "Why squanderest thou?"

if you consider the scorpion vs wraith events to be the clashing. As for overall connotations of greed, however, I don't remember anything off the top of my head. Questionable.


Oni Alpha Site / Circle 5: Wrath
The river cross-relation is pretty compelling. Straight out the bag there's an identifying relationship. Everything else, well, not super relatable.

NMPD / Circle 6: Heresy
I got nothing. Really.

Kikowani Station / Circle 7: Violence
Fits decently. First ring is a river, second ring is the suicides who relate to engineer and their (unwilling) suicide. You are indeed the harpy that cuts at them.

Data Hive / Circle 8: Fraud
Shockingly accurate. Circle 8 is divided into 10 ditches, whereas in Data Hive you descend 10 levels. Fraud is clearly a theme in this ODST level, as Vergil notes when you meet the cop - "Hitchhikers may be escaped convicts".

Coastal Highway / Circle 9: Treachery
Don't really see it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's a lot of stuff that adds up, but there's also a lot that doesn't follow. At points the relationships become exciting, at others they beg too many questions. Now, I do say this as someone who has only done a cursory lookthrough of Dante's Inferno; I lack the depth of knowledge that the composer Joseph Staten would have. It is very well possible that simple allegories exist and we are missing them, and I hope that's true, given how some of these seem to work so well. Parts of this feel great, but we must remain cautious, and ensure we don't find things where they aren't.

Additionally, I would like to posit a co-opting theory: That the internal levels of mombasa streets must be played in a specific order that does relate aptly to the circles. For example, Starting from Mombasa Streets, you may choose to play NMPD first. There's a wealth of different orders you can run the game in. This means we would have to figure out which circle most cogently fits with which circle in a nonlinear fashion.

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Theorizers / QTA XII VI, Dante's Inferno, and Hollow Men - The Ultimate Theory

« on: August 24, 2020, 01:24:54 »

Before I begin, yes I am crazy. But bear with me, and maybe, just maybe, I'm on to something.

I. Introduction

A. QTA XII VI
The ancient engima. The puzzle that was thought to be solved, but only came back again, staring us in the face, as if goading us. Originally thought to have concluded as a QuickTime Application trailer for Halo: Reach that released on December 6th, it actually was present as a string of text on armor in Reach, which led us to believe that we were not fully done with this badge yet. CIA has recently noted that Vergil the engineer was originally named "Quick To Adjust", which is also a valid candidate for the text. Moving past the text for now, SGP OG Tepec mentioned to me that one of his friends at Termacious Trickocity theorized about the XII VI meaning Canto XII Verse 6 of Dante's Inferno. Now, why Dante's Inferno? We are already well aware of the parallels and allegory between ODST and Dante's Inferno; if the hell of Mombasa Streets isn't symbolic enough, Data Hive's descent of the 9 levels seals the deal.

Canto XII is the beginning of Circle 7. Now, before we go any further, I want to make clear that the integrity of this theory is not hinged on this interpretation of QTA XII VI. I had actually already come to Circle 7 through my own conclusions after reading The Hollow Men, which will be explored later. This means that there are two potential pointers toward Circle 7 (Ring 1 and 3, the beginning and end), which makes this whole thing a little bit less of a stretch. Looking at the 6th verse of the Canto, we find this text:

My Sage towards him shouted: "Peradventure
Thou think'st that here may be the Duke of Athens,
Who in the world above brought death to thee?

To me, "Who in the world above brought death to thee?" sounds like something the many of us would ask about the dead Elites of New Mombasa. While I don't think QTA is particularly important to this easter egg, especially given how we've already identified more than one valid option, I personally imagine it to be "Question to Ask" or "Question to Answer". The question is of course is who brought death to the elites - the conclusion to the verse referred to by XII VI.

B. The Hollow Men
We are also well aware of the parallels between TS Eliot's The Hollow Men and ODST. To further emphasize this, Marty O'Donnell just posted the following on his twitter in response to RocketSloth and Tepec's revitalization of ODST's mystery:

Is it time to unravel the mystery from the land of cactus?

It is clear from this that our previous work on the relationship between ODST and Hollow Men was significant. Now, however, we have something to focus on: Cactus Land. Here's the first segment of Hollow Men's 3rd movement which references the Cactus Land:

This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

It's been compared to the Squidhenge before, and I'm pretty confident in saying Joseph Staten is well aware of the connection here. I mean, Stone images raised, dead man's hand, and twinkling of fading star...



But we started our journey in Dante's World, did we not? Under what circumstances could this entirely different poem be related? Well, let's work backwards.

C. Circle 7 Ring 3
There is a place in Dante's Inferno that heavily resembles a "cactus land", being described as:

A great Plain of Burning Sand scorched by great flakes of flame falling slowly down from the sky... The Blasphemers (the Violent against God) are stretched supine upon the burning sand... the Sodomites (the Violent against Nature) run in circles... the Usurers (the Violent against Art, which is the Grandchild of God, as explained in Canto XI) crouch huddled and weeping

---------------------------------------

Blasphemers = Elites
Sodomites = Covenant Camps
Usurers = Engineers

The blasphemers are self explanatory: elites that failed in achieving the great journey; a halo was destroyed. They become officially blasphemous later when the great schism occurs, but a San'Shyuum even decrees Thel Vadamm's failure as "Heresy" - the shoe fits. They now lay dead upon the ground.

The sodomites are also pretty self explanatory. The covenant wreaks havoc upon the city, glassing the planet (nature). They are quite unruly, bringing much damage to the world. The covenant packs of New Mombasa roam the streets in circles, looking for prey.

The Usurers are the Engineers, weeping over their slain brethren. Dante notes that "he does not recognize them, but each has a heraldic device emblazoned on a leather purse around his neck". Wikipedia says this about heraldic devices: A heraldic badge, emblem, impresa, device, or personal device worn as a badge indicates allegiance to, or the property of, an individual or family. Now here's the kicker: The Huragok were created by Forerunners, who were created by the Precursors. This makes the Huragok grandchildren of the precursors. And who are the precursors? They're the ultimate god figure in the Halo Universe, as far as I'm aware.

---------------------------------------

I have no doubt that the Cactus Land refers to the Squidhenge. Working backward, we can say that Mombasa Streets (Ring 3) is the end destination of the journey that QTA XII VI begins. We began by asking the question "Who in the world above brought death to thee?" and we concluded by visiting the Squidhenge and learning that the Elites were killed by the covenant because they were blasphemers. The Sad Mono Glyph mourns their fate.

II. Development

A. How does it all come together?
I have just presented a wealth of information and relationships with a fair bit of cross-linkage, but now it's time to really iron out a map. The most obvious thing we can say about Hollow Men III and Circle 7 Ring 3 is that Hollow Men specifically relates to the Squidhenge whereas Circle 7 Ring 3 is more of a bigger picture of Mombasa Streets. This is why I propose the relationship of:

Dante's Inferno -> Level
The Hollow Men -> Locale

The third ring's description lets us know that we need to be in Mombasa Streets, and the third movement of The Hollow Men lets us know that we need to be in the Squidhenge. This is one possible relationship, but of course it is fallible if Ring 1 and Movement 1 don't line up in any realistic way, for example. This is where the leg-work comes in. Through scrutinization of the passages in these two works, we can develop a road map that should take us throughout Halo 3: ODST.

B. Action Plan
How do we activate the easter egg, you might ask. After I mentioned that parts of the structure of Sadie's Story reflects the structure of Dante's Inferno (Audiologs 19-21 are labelled as Circle 7 Arc 1, Circle 7 Arc 2, and Circle 7 Arc 3), CIA suggested the playing of audiologs as a mechanism for the game to recognize. To bring this whole thing together, we need to identify the 3 relevant locations that reflect Dante's 7th circle and Hollow Men's 3 movements, playing audiologs 19-21 at each one respectively. Ignoring the details of Hollow Men and Rings 1/2, one probably imagines the 3 unique places of Mombasa Streets: Circular Glyph, Tri Glyph, and Mono Sad Glyph. Do these correlate with the structures governed by Hollow Men and the Rings, I don't know, does it matter, I don't know. But I've developed a framework that allows us to pursue this easter egg through an avenue that brings together all our past investigations into one esemplastic mass.

III. In Closing

Those of you who know me understand that I'm a sucker for insane theories that are more often than not just fantasies. The good news is that when an easter egg remains unsolved for 11 years, those crazy theories might just be the ones shaking things into place! While the exact technical details of this easter egg may not line up with the technical approach used in this theory, I believe that the relationships investigated here are still significant and will be helpful in the ultimate solution to this easter egg. I encourage everyone to explore the two works The Hollow Men and Dante's Inferno to develop your own theories. The more crazy stuff we try, the more likely we are to solve this thing! No stone unturned.

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Report In! / Re: Anyone still around? Because I'm back into this \o/

« on: August 23, 2020, 22:29:13 »

After 11 long years, it looks like we're finally nearing the end. LLtSGP!

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Report In! / Re: SGP: Secret detonator on CM:AS (Solved)

« on: May 26, 2019, 01:19:01 »

Relayed this over to Generalkidd some time ago and he revealed the unexciting (though expected) truth about the switch: just assets from the bridge. They're actually the same switches, and their state of charge is dependent on whether you armed on the bridge or not. They simply teleport to the chute once the bridge is destroyed, so as to not sit there floating. As for why they seem to arm once you're within proximity of them, no one knows. Probably just a byproduct of loading and data saving techniques.

https://youtu.be/TttJCqaK5BU

Many thanks to General Heed for solving the mystery!

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BOBs / Re: Tip of the Spear BOB Hunt (MAJOR UPDATE)

« on: May 26, 2019, 00:54:37 »

Ah, closure at last: https://youtu.be/230EDs0Y7sk . Spawn triggers at BXR. Issue is... spawn location is within an area that hasn't been loaded yet. If it's any consolation, each time you failed to find ToTS's Bob, you were still indirectly effecting his demise.

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Intel / Re: Shotcodes... ARE NOT shotcodes at all

« on: August 30, 2014, 04:04:02 »

I found polar area graphs. http://www.groundwatersoftware.com/media/Grapher8Polar3.gif Looks similar to the codes found in reach, thougt that was a bit interesting. A google search of "polar area graph" reveals similar graphs including one which looks similar to the codes found in containers in the dark blue sniper level (the name is eluding me). The link to it isn't working for me but it's near the previous picture in the google search.

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Report In! / Re: Christopher Barrett AMA TBA

« on: August 25, 2014, 05:53:28 »

Sounds like a good idea Imppa! Now who will be our ambassador?

As for the text, it is reddit so I feel that something short would get the job done. Something like "hi Chris, thanks for taking the time for this AMA. The world of ODST is riddled with mysterious glyphs. One glyph in particular, the Tri glyph (insert picture), has been documented to actually change in appaearence (2 pics of tri glyph altered). It has sparked quite a lot of discussion on the reasoning for it! Are these glyphs simply a reference to the communication method of the Engineers, or is there something more to these glyphs?"

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Report In! / Re: SGP: Secret detonator on CM:AS

« on: August 18, 2014, 17:10:35 »

Yeah, could very well be a throwback. I wonder if this level designer also designed delta halo.

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Report In! / Re: The Engineer in Halo 3: ODST has a name.

« on: August 18, 2014, 17:08:46 »

Is there a video of that last part? I can't tell if he's saying that last line jokingly or not. If not, it would kind of imply that they didn't spend much time on it, nor even confirmed that the secret could be found. Perhaps they did mess up.

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Report In! / Re: SGP: Secret detonator on CM:AS

« on: August 15, 2014, 04:43:34 »

Well the Mystery Gate switch of delta halo in halo 2 required death to switch. Dying didn't cause it to switch, it was a hold x kind of thing, but fallin to your death was a necessity to use it. Now that I think about it, this detonator really reminds me of that switch.

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Report In! / Re: Well heres something that a site noted

« on: August 14, 2014, 18:20:44 »

Perhaps this code can be linked to the glyphs seen on phantoms here: http://halo.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/Screenshots.aspx?player=scatcycle