Author Topic: J Banner 7  (Read 15760 times)

Dunder Moose

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J Banner 7
« on: October 25, 2009, 23:12:28 »
There is a J sign that has me puzzled.  In sector 5 there are J signs with code above the J.  Here's a couple looks:

http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=98938695

And here's another sign in the same sector

http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=98938339

At first I thought it was definitely a Baudot code, but it only has four bits instead of the standard five.  I though it might be Braille, but those are only three deep and two wide.  So, one less than Braille, one more than Baudot.  Is it significant that Baudot's code is based on an earlier code developed by Carl Friedrich Gauss and Wilhelm Weber in 1834?  There is a thank you to the Gauss Ammunition people in the end credits.

I'll keep on working on it.  I wonder if the barrier codes might provide the missing dots in the Baudot somehow?  Has anyone seen any more of these dot images in the other sectors?  And does anyone else have the UNSC Eagle image with Spoiler instead of the picture in your Bungie.net gallery for in game photos?

Here is a web page with a Baudot code key about halfway down.
http://www.diycalculator.com/popup-h-paper.shtml
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 23:52:36 by ColdGlider »
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ColdGlider

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Re: J Code
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2009, 00:48:28 »
We knew about the banners and the possible codes therein, but we didn't know about gauss code.

Brilliant connection with the credits!

My initial research is a bit disheartening.  Gauss' system (actually Gauss/Weber) was originally based on needle rotations (left or right).  A sequence of rotations (between 1-4) encoded a letter or number.  Thirty different codes were possible.  The disheartening part is that there are essentially three possible values in each position (nothing, left, right).  With only dots and blanks, the banners don't convey the difference between the "left" and "right" of the Gauss/Weber code.  You cannot assume that blank spaces are one or the other, because you won't be able to discern the difference between a series of two blanks and a series of three!

The system is still in use for historical reasons- a laser beam sends Gauss/Weber encoded messages by mapping left and right to short pulses and long pulses in Goettingen.

I also compared the banner codes against the Baudot encoding in case it was possible to drop one of the five lines and still convey a full alphabet.  Using the standard encoding, it is not.

I wouldn't expect the barrier codes to come into play here.  But expectations are dangerous!  Thanks for revitalizing this topic!  And welcome to the SGP!
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Dunder Moose

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Re: J Code
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 01:23:55 »
Thanks ColdGlider. Good to be here!
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Omeganuepsilon

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Re: J Code
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 04:54:53 »
I noted a similar thing with the J code but didn't get as far, this prompted me to do some reading on Gauss(bored...)

well after some fruitless reading, I followed a link to a link and found this...

http://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/convert-base.php?to=quaternary


there's a pulldown to switch between any given number of a code

The thing about the J code...it could be 5 bits  01234, or the empty column could just be a space and end up being 0123 for the rest.

I posted this in that other thread somewhere, but it could be useful also:

http://home2.paulschou.net/tools/xlate/

That's a code convertor, but not numbers, it handles text as well, IE

Omeganuepsilon = 01001111 01101101 01100101 01100111 01100001 01101110 01110101 01100101 01110000 01110011 01101001 01101100 01101111 01101110

The J code, could be the conversion of a conversion, but I'm too tired.

ColdGlider

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Re: J Code
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 15:43:05 »
Thanks for dropping in again, Omega!  And thanks for the base conversion link!

I'm going to lock this thread since the older one has more info at this point.  So please resume the conversation over here.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 17:12:10 by nightcrafter27 »
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ColdGlider

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Re: J Code
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 23:52:21 »
I changed my mind.  I would like to maintain a topic in Task Force: 7 for each of the "J Banners".  This post is a perfect place for discussion on the banner that Dunder Moose provided image links to (now also in the gallery.)

Each of the three banners discovered so far has a unique signature in the fourth column.  (They differ elsewhere as well, but that is the first column which differs among all three.)  If you decode these columns into binary (Top-Bottom, Little Endian, Dot=1) then you can obtain three unique numbers which can be used to identify the banners easily: 7, 0, 15.  This is especially nice since each of the extremes (as well as the number 7!) is represented.

Based on this unique property, I'm naming the banner cataloged by Dunder Moose "J Banner 7" and renaming this topic's subject accordingly.  I'm also happily unlocking it.

:)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 17:12:44 by nightcrafter27 »
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ColdGlider

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J Banner 7 - Catalog of 4-bit Column Codes
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2009, 00:21:43 »


Way back on October 8th I described what I thought would be the required specifications for an analysis tool capable of tackling the binary data we assumed to be contained in the J-Banners.  I began writing that tool the other night and the current version allowed me to produce the following data for J Banner 7.  

I wanted to catalog the 4-bit values encoded in the banner columns.  For each of four possible interpretations, a comma separated list is provided.  There are three fields: column index, binary representation, decimal value.

Please note that maintaining Little Endian bit order while changing scan direction (top-bottom / left-right) is functionally equivalent to maintaining the scan direction and altering the endianness.  


J Banner 7

Transcribed Data (Dot=1)
1011010110111101010111111010
1011111001101101101110110101
0101001011110000110011010110
0000011100101001100101101011

Decoded by Columns: Dot=1, L-R, T-B, Little Endian
01,0011,3
02,0100,4
03,0011,3
04,0111,7
05,0010,2
06,1011,11
07,1110,14
08,1001,9
09,0101,5
10,0110,6
11,1111,15
12,0101,5
13,1011,11
14,0011,3
15,0000,0
16,1011,11
17,1110,14
18,0101,5
19,0010,2
20,1011,11
21,0111,7
22,1101,13
23,1011,11
24,0111,7
25,1001,9
26,0110,6
27,1101,13
28,1010,10


Decoded by Columns: Dot=1, L-R, B-T, Little Endian
01,1100,12
02,0010,2
03,1100,12
04,1110,14
05,0100,4
06,1101,13
07,0111,7
08,1001,9
09,1010,10
10,0110,6
11,1111,15
12,1010,10
13,1101,13
14,1100,12
15,0000,0
16,1101,13
17,0111,7
18,1010,10
19,0100,4
20,1101,13
21,1110,14
22,1011,11
23,1101,13
24,1110,14
25,1001,9
26,0110,6
27,1011,11
28,0101,5

Transcribed Data (Dot=0)
0100101001000010101000000101
0100000110010010010001001010
1010110100001111001100101001
1111100011010110011010010100

Decoded by Columns: Dot=0, L-R, T-B, Little Endian
01,1100,12
02,1011,11
03,1100,12
04,1000,8
05,1101,13
06,0100,4
07,0001,1
08,0110,6
09,1010,10
10,1001,9
11,0000,0
12,1010,10
13,0100,4
14,1100,12
15,1111,15
16,0100,4
17,0001,1
18,1010,10
19,1101,13
20,0100,4
21,1000,8
22,0010,2
23,0100,4
24,1000,8
25,0110,6
26,1001,9
27,0010,2
28,0101,5


Decoded by Columns: Dot=0, L-R, B-T, Little Endian
01,0011,3
02,1101,13
03,0011,3
04,0001,1
05,1011,11
06,0010,2
07,1000,8
08,0110,6
09,0101,5
10,1001,9
11,0000,0
12,0101,5
13,0010,2
14,0011,3
15,1111,15
16,0010,2
17,1000,8
18,0101,5
19,1011,11
20,0010,2
21,0001,1
22,0100,4
23,0010,2
24,0001,1
25,0110,6
26,1001,9
27,0100,4
28,1010,10
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 17:15:05 by nightcrafter27 »
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EnigmaBiz

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Re: J Banner 7
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2009, 01:03:56 »
 :( What ever happened to good old fashion Tea Bagging?

(I will not be offended if you delete this, for the sake of keeping the it clean)

Dunder Moose

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Re: J Banner 7
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 16:12:22 »
So I can't program like ColdGlider, but I know how to use Excel a little.  Here is a graphic representation of the banners.  The composite at the bottom shows the frequency for dots in each position.  It seems likely since the codes are so similar that they do not give meaning when concatenated (Unless it is a repetitious phrase).  Also by comparing them one to another, each position now has a possibility of 4 values:  0-3.  I don't know what that opens up decryption-wise.  I got excited when I learned that there is an 8-dot Braille that would match the depth of the banners, but I haven't found a good ascii mapping for it online.

If the attachment doesn't work you can view it here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/61024371@N00/4100217777
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ColdGlider

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Re: J Banner 7
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2009, 21:34:32 »
Well done, Mr. Moose!  The image has been added to our gallery here

I've often wondered what binary operations on the data (i.e binary AND, binary OR) would produce.  Moose's result set provides the equivalent of an AND operation if you convert the blocks equal to 3 to a 1 and the rest of the values to 0.  To get the equivalent to an OR operation, you convert all non-zero values to 1.  Performing each of these operations produces two "new" sets of banner dots:

J-Banners - Binary AND
1010010110011101010100000010
1010011001000001101010110101
0000001010010000110011010110
0000011000001001100101101011

J-Banners - Binary OR
1011010110111101010111111110
1011111111111111111111111101
0101001011111100110011011110
1111111100101101101101101011

I dropped these new data sets into my binary analyzer program and set it to decode ASCII in four different ways.  I turned up a big nothing, but am providing the data for proof/reference.  I also grouped the data into 7-bit bytes, performed the same eight decodings, and also got nothing.  If anyone really wants that data I can provide it as well.

Below are the ASCII conversions of these new sets of dots, assuming 8-bit bytes.  Values in brackets ([]) are within the ASCII range but are non-printable.   Values in braces ({}) are outside the valid ASCII range.  Valid ASCII values are decoded into the corresponding ASCII character. 

J-Banner Binary AND ASCII Conversion: Dot=1, L-R, T-B, Big Endian
01,10100101,{165}
02,10011101,{157}
03,01010000,P
04,00101010,*
05,01100100,d
06,00011010,[26]
07,10110101,{181}
08,00000010,[2]
09,10010000,{144}
10,11001101,{205}
11,01100000,`
12,01100000,`
13,10011001,{153}
14,01101011,k

J-Banner Binary AND ASCII Conversion: Dot=0, L-R, T-B, Big Endian
01,01011010,Z
02,01100010,b
03,10101111,{175}
04,11010101,{213}
05,10011011,{155}
06,11100101,{229}
07,01001010,J
08,11111101,{253}
09,01101111,o
10,00110010,2
11,10011111,{159}
12,10011111,{159}
13,01100110,f
14,10010100,{148}

J-Banner Binary AND ASCII Conversion: Dot=1, L-R, T-B, Little Endian
01,10100101,{165}
02,10111001,{185}
03,00001010,[10]
04,01010100,T
05,00100110,&
06,01011000,X
07,10101101,{173}
08,01000000,@
09,00001001,[9]
10,10110011,{179}
11,00000110,[6]
12,00000110,[6]
13,10011001,{153}
14,11010110,{214}

J-Banner Binary AND ASCII Conversion: Dot=0, L-R, T-B, Little Endian
01,01011010,Z
02,01000110,F
03,11110101,{245}
04,10101011,{171}
05,11011001,{217}
06,10100111,{167}
07,01010010,R
08,10111111,{191}
09,11110110,{246}
10,01001100,L
11,11111001,{249}
12,11111001,{249}
13,01100110,f
14,00101001,)

J-Banner Binary OR ASCII Conversion: Dot=1, L-R, T-B, Big Endian
01,10110101,{181}
02,10111101,{189}
03,01011111,_
04,11101011,{235}
05,11111111,{255}
06,11111111,{255}
07,11111101,{253}
08,01010010,R
09,11111100,{252}
10,11001101,{205}
11,11101111,{239}
12,11110010,{242}
13,11011011,{219}
14,01101011,k

J-Banner Binary OR ASCII Conversion: Dot=0, L-R, T-B, Big Endian
01,01001010,J
02,01000010,B
03,10100000,{160}
04,00010100,[20]
05,00000000,[0]
06,00000000,[0]
07,00000010,[2]
08,10101101,{173}
09,00000011,[3]
10,00110010,2
11,00010000,[16]
12,00001101,[13]
13,00100100,$
14,10010100,{148}

J-Banner Binary OR ASCII Conversion: Dot=1, L-R, T-B, Little Endian
01,10101101,{173}
02,10111101,{189}
03,11111010,{250}
04,11010111,{215}
05,11111111,{255}
06,11111111,{255}
07,10111111,{191}
08,01001010,J
09,00111111,?
10,10110011,{179}
11,11110111,{247}
12,01001111,O
13,11011011,{219}
14,11010110,{214}

J-Banner Binary OR ASCII Conversion: Dot=0, L-R, T-B, Little Endian
01,01010010,R
02,01000010,B
03,00000101,[5]
04,00101000,(
05,00000000,[0]
06,00000000,[0]
07,01000000,@
08,10110101,{181}
09,11000000,{192}
10,01001100,L
11,00001000,[8]
12,10110000,{176}
13,00100100,$
14,00101001,)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 17:17:28 by nightcrafter27 »
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Dunder Moose

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Re: J Banner 7
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2009, 17:49:49 »
Great work ColdGlider!

Does Octadecimal binary map to ASCII very well?  I'm still kinda new to this process but.  If 0=00 and 1=01, 2=10 and 3=11 then we have doubled the length of the binary we can get from each column.

the first column being a 3,3,0,1 would come out:  11110001, and so on. I can try to hand-crunch these here at work on lunch, but CG's program would probably be a reliable backup to check my work.
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Apollo Doom

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Re: J Banner 7
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2009, 21:46:29 »
I have no idea what you guys are talking about in this thread.  That just makes it more awesome though.

Scatcycle

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Re: J Banner 7
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2009, 01:11:29 »
 :-\   ??? same lol. im twelve and what is this? XD
I feel it

Imppa

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Re: J Banner 7
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2009, 11:32:13 »
It's okay if you don't totally get it, just nod you'r head and say something like "Good working" and stuff. ;D

Dunder Moose

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Re: J Banner 7
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2009, 13:09:19 »
Basically I took all three known J Banners and overlaid them.  I added the dots for each position.  The top left position has a dot in all three J Banners, so I gave it a value of 3.  If there was a position that had no dots in any banner I gave it a 0.  If there was a position that had only 1 or 2, I gave those numbers.  So for example if you look at the first column of all three banners, they all have the first two positions dotted, the third empty and only the 3rd J Banner has a dot in the bottom.  So it goes 3,3,0,1 for the combined first column.

Proceeding thusly I converted 0 to 00, 1 to 01, 2 to 10, and 3's became 11's.

Here are the bytes that the overlay gives. 

11110001
00001001
11110001
10101001
00100001
11110011
00111111
11010010
11011100
00111000
10101010
11011100
11100111
11101001
00010000
11110011
00111111
11011100
00110001
11100011
10111100
10011111
10110011
10111100
10010111
01111100
11001111
00110011

I am not skilled to convert this binary into text.  Everything I've seen online is for hexadecimal (six positions) binary conversion and not full 8.  So I get a differing final three numbers all preceeded by &#.  Hopefully somebody with the skills ta pay da bills can crunchify this.  Otherwise I am educating myself as fast as I can.
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